What is the "Parousia" in the New Testament

[LittleLambofJesus]

Parousia #3952 used only 4 times in Gospels all in Matthew 24. The Roman church believes this is past:

http://christianforums.com/t6813701-question-time-jesus-returns-before-or-after-1000yrs.html

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts/kardiaV blamebless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him.

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven having be opened and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful-one and True-one and in justice He is judging and is battling.

Zech 14:5 And you flee ravine of mountains, that he shall touch ravine of mountains to 'Atsel. And you flee as which you fled from before the earthquake in days of `Uzziyah king of Y@huwdah and He comes, YHWH my Elohiym, all of holy-ones with You.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Little Lamb ,,
great thoughts !
I was reading this again
and was wondering if the same WORDS
parousia
, comming 22 times and ''presence'' 2 times
was what your getting ?
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
and if you believe that this event a ''personal '' or'' Individual '''' return of Christ , like I do
or if its a massive and all together return as some tend to believe ?
thanks bro!
i love this thread , makes me think hee hee
peace and Gods love .........Chicka

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Little Lamb ,,
great thoughts !
I was reading this again
and was wondering if the same WORDS
parousia
, comming 22 times and ''presence'' 2 times
was what your getting ?
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
and if you believe that this event a ''personal '' or'' Individual '''' return of Christ , like I do
or if its a massive and all together return as some tend to believe ?
thanks bro!
i love this thread , makes me think hee hee
peace and Gods love .........Chicka

Hi chicka!!!!! Long time no see.
In my view if a Christian comes to Christ they should read the Bible all the way from Genesis to Revelation as written for THEM personally.

The whole Bible is about YHWH's remdemption for ALL mankind and what I find interesting especially in Revelation is how the Lord often times repeats some of the same things twice, which implies that that that the Prophecy will come to past. More coming up.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it/her having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772), for the Time Is-Near/egguV <1451>.

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this. That the Time Is-near/egguV <1451>, is.

I also brought it up on the OBOB board but not getting much answers concerning from them:

http://christianforums.com/t6920830-question-for-roman-catholics-only-on-parousia.html
question-for-roman-catholics-only-on-parousia

 

[Chickapee]

Hi chicka!!!!! Long time no see.
In my view if a Christian comes to Christ they should read the Bible all the way from Genesis to Revelation as written for THEM personally.

The whole Bible is about YHWH's remdemption for ALL mankind and what I find interesting especially in Revelation is how the Lord often times repeats some of the same things twice, which implies that that that the Prophecy will come to past. More coming up.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it/her having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772), for the Time Is-Near/egguV <1451>.

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this. That the Time Is-near/egguV <1451>, is.

I also brought it up on the OBOB board but not getting much answers concerning from them:

http://christianforums.com/t6920830-...-parousia.html
question-for-roman-catholics-only-on-parousia

Hi Little Lamb !!!

wow made me think of this one ,

Rev 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,

See [thou do it] not:

I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:

worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



Im not sure how its worded in the interliner bible , im curious to what it says ?
I cannot down load that bible my computer and brower is too old lol

thanks for the reply .............
interesting on that thread bro .. humm ....... in Christs love Chicka

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Little Lamb !!!

wow made me think of this one ,

Rev 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,

See [thou do it] not:

I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:

worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



Im not sure how its worded in the interliner bible , im curious to what it says ?
I cannot down load that bible my computer and brower is too old lol

thanks for the reply .............
interesting on that thread bro .. humm ....... in Christs love Chicka

Thanks. I had all of Revelation translated from the Greek texts and lost it all when my computer went "deep 6" on me.

1 Peter 4:7 Of all-things/pantwn <3956> yet The End Has-Neared/hggiken <1448> (5758); be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

James 5:8 be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448>(5758);

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Other than this greek word "parousia" only occuring in Matt 24 of the Gospels, it is associated with the "Son of the Man" instead of Son of the God. Guess I need to study what that term "son of the man" means as I do not believe it is used outside of the Gospels anywhere [except 2 times in Rev]

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

Matthew 24:27 for even as the lightning/star-flashes/astraph <796> comes-out from risings, and is appearing till of west, thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;

Matthew 24:37 For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man/anqrwpou <444> ;

Matthew 24:39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all! away. Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

 

[barryrob]

I was studying on the translation of Luke 15 concerning the "Prodigal Son", when the word for "substances/good" stuck out at me.

The word "ousia" means goods/substances which is used only twice in the NT, in Luke 16. The greek word "pa-rousia" also uses that root word.

It would appears parousia could symbolize "Father of Substances" perhaps.

I put both the english transliteration and the greek form of the words here. Just thought it was interesting. Thoughts?

http://www.talk-grace.com/index.php

3776. ousia oo-see'-ah from the feminine of 5607; substance, i.e. property (possessions):--goods, substance.
3962. pater pat-ayr' apparently a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote):--father, parent.
3952. parousia par-oo-see'-ah from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return;

3776 ousia/ousiaV (Strong's 3776) occurs 2 times in 2 verses:

3962 pater/ pathr <3962> (Strong's 3962) occurs 419 times in 372 verses:

3952 parousia/parousiaV (Strong's 3952) occurs 24 times in 24 verses:

Matthew 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence/parousiaV <3952>, and of the full end/sunteleiaV <4930> of the age/aiwnoV <165>?'

Luke 15:12 and the younger of them said to the father, 'Father, give me the portion/meroV <3313> of the substance/ousiaV <3776> falling/epiballon <1911> to [me]', and he divided to them the living.

Matthew 5:48 ye shall therefore be perfect/teleioi <5046>, as the Father/pathr <3962> of you who [is] in the heavens is perfect/teleioV <5046>.

ia

presence, arrival, coming (TDNT; CBB. NTW).- Linguistic Key to the Greek N.T. by F. Rienecker - C. Rogers p.70

"​

​

parousia ​

(< pareimi be at hand/present) presence, coming, arrival."-A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek N.T by M. Zerwick S.J. - Mary Grosvenor p.77

*"15.86 ​

​

parercomai; paraginmai; pareimi; parouia, aV​

f; paristamai (and 2nd aorist active): to come to be present at a perticular place - 'to come, to arrive, to come to be present.'

**"85.26​

​

parousia, ou ​

n: (a figurative extension of meaning of proswpon 'face' 8.18) the personal presence of an individual at a particular place - 'presence, being at a place.' plhrwseiV me eufprunhV meta tou proswpou sou 'with your presence you will fill me with joy' Ac 2.28."-Greek-English Lexicon of the N.T.based on Semantic Domains by J.P. Louw & E.A. Nida U.B.S. Vol.1 pp.*193-4, **726.

"3952. Parousia​

​

; from paron, present, presence. a being present. a coming to a place, from the verb pereimi (3918) (para, 3844, near, with, and eimi 1510, to be). To be present, to be on hand. Opp. of apousia (666), absence. Parousia is connected with the Second Coming of Christ, as apokalupsis (602) and epiphaneia (2015). See 1 Thess. 4:15-17; Js 5:8, II Pet. 3:4; I Jn. 2:28/ The parousia corresponds with the apokalupsis of the Son of Man (Mt. 27:27,37,39,); of Christ (I Cor. 15:23); of our Lord (I Thess 3:13; 5:23). See also I Thess 1:7' I Pet. 1:7. The two expressions are used interchangeably in II Thess. 2:1,2."-The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible Spiros Zodhites, Th.D. p.1719 [Numbers are Strong's]​

"Parousia A. General meaning. ​

​

1. Presence. pareimi means "to be present' (person or thing). parousia denotes "active presence" (e.g., of representative or troops, in person; cf. 2 Cor. 10:10). 2. Appearing. pareimi also means "to have come," "to come" and parousia "arrival.""-Theological Dic. of the N.T. by G.W. Bromley p.791​

A brief comment from the book 'YAHWEH: The divine name in the Bible' by G.H. Parke-Taylor page 102 when referring to "the eschatological hope of the parousia ("appearance," i.e. final coming) of Jesus as kyrios?" Note that G.H. Parke-Taylor here equates "parousia" to"appearance." Which would make Matt 24:3 read and the sign of your appearance which complements "the sign of your presence" (N.W.T.).​

"Coming, come​

​

(Greek parousia) : The ordinary, secular meaning of this word is simply 'presence' and it is used occasionally in this sense in the NT (1 Cor 16:17 of Stephanas, 2 Cor 7:6 of Titus; see also 2 Cor 10:10 and Php 2:12). But is also was in common use to denote the 'state visit' or 'coming' of a person of high rank, such as a governor to his province or a king to a country. From this usage is derived the special NT meaning, 'the coming' of Christ in glory to judge the world at the end of the age. The word is asterisked in the text only when it occurs in this sense. See Mat 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Th 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Th 2:1, 8, 9; Jas 5:7, 8,; 2 Pe 1:16; 3:4, 12; 1 Jn 2:28."-The Translators New Testament' by The British and Foreign Bible Society p.558​

"presence"​

"presence n. 1 being present. 2 place where a person is (admitted to their presence). 3 person's appearance or bearing, esp. when imposing. 4 person or spirit that is present (the royal presence; aware of a presence in the room). [Latin: related to *present1]"-The Pocket Oxford Dictionary C.D.

"presence​

​

/'prez(e)ns/ n​

1 the fact or condition of being present​

​

< requested his ~ at the meeting >​

2a the immediate vicinity near the specified person < never looked at ease in my ~ >
2b the vicinity of one of superior, esp royal, rank < bowed before withdrawing from the ~ >
3 one who or that which is present: e.g.
3a the actual person or thing that is present ​

​

< a fiery column charioting his Godlike ~ - John Milton>​

3b something present of a visible or concrete nature < a ~ on the radar screen >
3c a number of people seen as representatives who are engaged in playing an influential role, esp in the political, economic, or cultural life of another country < the withdrawal of the American ~ in Vietnam > < wanted to establish a British ~ in a largely foreign-controlled industry >
4a a personal magnetism that attracts and holds the attention of others
4a a usu dignified or stately bearing or appearance
4b a quality of poise or distinction in a person, esp a performer, that enables him/her to impress or have a strong effect on others < an actor with considerable ~ >
5 something (e.g. a ghost) felt or believed to be present."-Longman Dictornary' from INFOPEDIA UK96​

"Parousia" [a persent participle] is thus an arrival of someone, a being actually present for a time period and not a future event or happen that has not yet taken place.​

EAXMPLE:-​

Coming is an event that happen at one instant in time, which starts a presence which is over a length on time.
1 Cor 16:17 - The physical, visible coming of Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaicus to the apostle Paul. THEY SPENT TIME TOGETHER THUS FOR A TIME PERIOD THEY WHERE PRESENT WITH PAUL.
2 Cor 7:6-7 - The physical, visible coming of Titus to Paul. AGAIN THEY SPENT A TIME IN THE PRESENCE OF EACH OTHERS COMPANY.
2 Cor 10:10 - The physical, visible presence of Paul at Corinth. REFERRING TO THE TIME PERIOD HE SPENT WITH THEM OR A PRESENCE IN THEIR COMPANY.
Phil 1:25-26 - The physical, visible coming of Paul to the church at Philippi. AS PAUL SAYS IN THIS VERSE HE IS TALKING OF THE TIME PERIOD THAT HE WILL "REMAIN" AND "ABIDE" WITH THEM.
This shows that a "parousia" is over a time period and not one event in a instant of time like a flash, but more as a flame burning for some a period time.
Example; Paul was refer to his presence or stay with them over a period of time. For example one the day that Paul arrived, this would be his coming, the period of time he stayed would be his presence, the day he left would be his going. It is the time period that he stayed that would be his "PRESENCE" over a period of time.
So a coming or "erkhomenon" would be in a flash, but a presence or "parousia" would be like a light left on over a period of time. like Paul's stay with the brothers. To put into a scheme:-
1914 Jesus started his "parousia", as king in heaven, in time his presence will climax in his COMING to bring the Great Tribulation on all false religions which then is followed buy an assault on J.Ws buy the political elements of Satan's world which precipitates Armageddon.
So to translate "parousia" as "coming" which is technical wrong covers up the presence (or extended time period) of Jesus which is in progress now and which will culminate in destruction of the wicked, so if they do not see this important event, as it is obscured by mistranslation how can they see the need to change and quickly to please God and Jesus?

A "presence" cannot be like a flash of lighting so what did Jesus mean as at Matt 24:27-28.
it-2 255 Lightning
Christ Jesus showed that his presence would not be kept secret, even as it is impossible to conceal lightning that "comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts." (Mt 24:23-27; Lu 17:20-24) Earlier, when the 70 disciples he had sent out returned with the report that even the demons were subject to them by the use of his name, Jesus alluded to the future ouster of Satan from heaven as a certainty, saying: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."—Lu 10:1, 17, 18.
​