What is the origin of the “Fire Tunnel” ritual at Bethel Church?

[tturt]

Everybody have a chance to read the forum rules before posting?

 

[tturt]

People are offended constantly. I've seen a few tears and on another occasion 1 spoken amen set others off.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have done my share of treating the Bethel church as being heretical, but the Holy Spirit asked me yesterday, "Did you know that there are genuine believers there who love Jesus and have their faith in what He did for them on the Cross? Are you going to condemn the godly with those who are in error?"He went on to show me that Paul encouraged the Corinthians even though there were major issues in that church. Paul supported that church because of the true believers there who were not involved in the issues that he needed to sort out.

In that way the Holy Spirit told me not to judge Bethel church on the basis of its lunatic practices or its unconventional teaching but on the foundation of the true godly believers there who are holding up a standard for Jesus in that church.

So we deal with the issues and not put a blanket condemnation on the whole church, otherwise we could harm the faith of the godly folk in that church, who should not be the victims of collateral damage through friendly fire in the process of our heresy hunting.

 

[ss51]

I would even not dare to label any there, or their practices, but keep myself "stayed on Him", as He commands us.
blessings

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

How were people hurt by the charismatic movement? Can you expand on that "hurt" you alluded to?

No one is hurt by the Charismatic Movement itself any more than in any other church. It is usually the lunatic fringe that bring churches into disrepute and just as many are turned away from the faith in non-Charimatic churches as well, usually through legalism, criticism, or just plain boredom through liberalist Christless preaching.

Most people in Charismatic and non-Charismatic churches are godly, Christ centred folk who are living and serving God the best they can. Every church has its lunatics who do a lot of harm.

 

[ss51]

Everybody is somebodies weirdo, or lunatic.
Please rethink labeling anyone.
best wishes

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You'd have to ask them...

I, for instance, was hurt by an International House of Prayer wannabe that I was involved in an internship with. I was forced to go through a spiritual warfare/deliverance thing that I did not want to go through as I felt I didn't need to be delivered of anything. It ended up causing a lot of hurt and damage spiritually and was a catalyst in me stepping away from the faith for a time. That's just me though and while I no longer hold any bitterness in my heart, it was from a movement that strikes me as very similar to what I observe out of Bethel.

Ultimately, I was saying that a lot of the criticism I see towards Bethel seems to be coming from life-time cessationists or folks who were hurt by their Charismatic churches (as in folks who believe in the gifts being for today) and have since left and became cessationist.

If the truth was known, it wasn't the church that hurt you or others, it was some people in it whose standard of holiness and love were not what they should be. A wise and godly pastor told me once that God does everything exactly right, but we have to forgive some of his servants sometimes.

It is sobering when we consider that God measures our love for Christ on our willingness to totally forgive those who have hurt us the most.

 

[ss51]

Wonderful to meditate on and walk in, thank you very much.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I have done my share of treating the Bethel church as being heretical, but the Holy Spirit asked me yesterday, "Did you know that there are genuine believers there who love Jesus and have their faith in what He did for them on the Cross? Are you going to condemn the godly with those who are in error?"He went on to show me that Paul encouraged the Corinthians even though there were major issues in that church. Paul supported that church because of the true believers there who were not involved in the issues that he needed to sort out.

In that way the Holy Spirit told me not to judge Bethel church on the basis of its lunatic practices or its unconventional teaching but on the foundation of the true godly believers there who are holding up a standard for Jesus in that church.

So we deal with the issues and not put a blanket condemnation on the whole church, otherwise we could harm the faith of the godly folk in that church, who should not be the victims of collateral damage through friendly fire in the process of our heresy hunting.

Truth.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

If the truth was known, it wasn't the church that hurt you or others, it was some people in it whose standard of holiness and love were not what they should be. A wise and godly pastor told me once that God does everything exactly right, but we have to forgive some of his servants sometimes.

It is sobering when we consider that God measures our love for Christ on our willingness to totally forgive those who have hurt us the most.

If by church you mean "The Church" as in the body of Christ, yes, I agree it was not the Body that hurt me but rather this one ministry.

If by church you mean the ministry that I was a part of, no, it was that church specifically as I took my objection to participating in the deliverance course and event all the way to the actual leaders of the ministry and they required that I participate in it, so it was that church, if one could call it that, that did directly spiritually hurt and abuse me.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If by church you mean "The Church" as in the body of Christ, yes, I agree it was not the Body that hurt me but rather this one ministry.

If by church you mean the ministry that I was a part of, no, it was that church specifically as I took my objection to participating in the deliverance course and event all the way to the actual leaders of the ministry and they required that I participate in it, so it was that church, if one could call it that, that did directly spiritually hurt and abuse me.

But not the whole Pentecostal/Charismatic movement as some make out. 90% of Pentecostals and Charismatic folk are Bible-believing, Jesus loving, godly people who seek to live holy lives and to love others. Just because many of them actually enjoy church and have fun there and sing with all their hearts, laugh, shout, dance in their worship, doesn't mean that they are out-of-control wacky wackies. They are not like the cold religious folk who may yell like Commanche Indians at the football match on Saturday and sit like wooden Indians in church on Sunday.

Actually, there are more people sleeping through sermons in liberal evangelical churches than there are in the lunatic fringe in Pentecostal churches. There is more destructive criticism, denial of the resurrection, "holier than thou" attitudes, homosexual ministers, and young people quitting the church when they leave their parents' homes, in Evangelical churches than Pentecostal ones. My brother was put off Christianity through the perverted conduct of a Methodist youth worker who was exposing himself to the young women in the group.

But we don't see on these threads, people saying they were put off the faith by the behaviour of people in Evangelical churches. It is always Pentecostals who are being attacked, when many Evangelicals are far worse.