- Dec 20, 2009
- 30,258
- 8,536
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Married
Using the devil's reaction to determine the will of God is flawed and dangerous. It's not a good idea to rely on this.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I have no idea what you mean?
Oh you heretic youOk I will kick the dust off of my shoes then and move on.
Don't sell yourself so short, but then again, you don't have that much to work with.I have done all I can do.
And also with you, always.May God be with you brother.
One could consider it as a satanic conspiracy in order to dupe people into thinking that maybe the Catholics are right. The devil has been around long enough to know how we think. I'm not saying I believe this to be the case, just pointing out the argument presented is not necessarily as potent as claimed.Using the devil's reaction to determine the will of God is flawed and dangerous. It's not a good idea to rely on this.
One could consider it as a satanic conspiracy in order to dupe people into thinking that maybe the Catholics are right. The devil has been around long enough to know how we think. I'm not saying I believe this to be the case, just pointing out the argument presented is not necessarily as potent as claimed.
So what do protestant do with these? They either have to say that these are made up(like the Atheist medical materialist do) or that they are from Satan(like the Fundies do). But the fruits seem to bring about conversion to Jesus Christ. Does this not point toward Mary's real intercession and her Immaculate Conception?? Just curious what do non-Catholic Christians do with these.
In terms of this, I think you're limited to your own context. Because you're Catholic you might be limited in your knowledge as to what's happening elsewhere.What about the strong negative evidence that Satanist mock the Mass and not just any worshio service. Satanist also break into Catholic Churches and steal consecrated host to vilify in black Mass. They do not break into Lutheran or Methodist Churches or others ect to do that.
My guess is that non-Catholics, by and large, just don't think in terms of "dazzle me and I'll believe." They are converted to Christ as Christ and don't feel the need for such alleged miracles. Without getting into the authenticity of them--or lack of same--what purpose do they serve?I often get this question ignored when I ask it from many non Catholics. I assume they are trying to be nice. In the Catholic faith we have many documented "doctrinal miracles" or miracles associated with dogma's. Such as the miracles at Lourdes(a place where the BVM told St. Bernadette that She was "the Immaculate Conception"). This Shrine which has 69 miracles recognized by the Vatican so far and thousands of non recognized ones by the medical community and locals
I think the problem with this is that there are many miracles reported across Christianity, including charismatic / Word of Faith circles. There's lots of stuff happening in Africa - for example, look up TB Joshua. He might be a charlatan, as many believe, but many of the miracles are real. I know a guy who went to see what was going on there and saw some healings that no one could fake (literally cancerous growths disappearing etc.). Do such miracles validate his theology? Think about guys like Benny Hinn etc. Do the many signs and wonders and miracles validate the theology? In truth, many people come to Christ through many rather dubious ministries.
It seems we can't really use these things to validate doctrine. Perhaps God simply honours faith, regardless of the context. I can't say for sure about what to think of Mary specifically but I have to pretty much deal with this like I deal with all the miracles taking place in other contexts where I really do think the theology is not Biblical at all. I have to chalk it up to God's sovereignty reaching people where they are at.
I often get this question ignored when I ask it from many non Catholics. I assume they are trying to be nice. In the Catholic faith we have many documented "doctrinal miracles" or miracles associated with dogma's. Such as the miracles at Lourdes(a place where the BVM told St. Bernadette that She was "the Immaculate Conception"). This Shrine which has 69 miracles recognized by the Vatican so far and thousands of non recognized ones by the medical community and locals has brough many to the brink of faith.. Medical science has been puzzled by these and even some atheist doctors who have seen the healings have been brought to the brink of conversion because of these. So what do protestant do with these? They either have to say that these are made up(like the Atheist medical materialist do) or that they are from Satan(like the Fundies do). But the fruits seem to bring about conversion to Jesus Christ. Does this not point toward Mary's real intercession and her Immaculate Conception?? Just curious what do non-Catholic Christians do with these. And the same goes for the Eucharistic Miracles like that of Lanciano which are on display today where a host turned into visible flesh and wine visible blood which has been scientifically tested also? Does this not point toward the Catholic dogma?
What about the strong negative evidence that Satanist mock the Mass and not just any worshio service. Satanist also break into Catholic Churches and steal consecrated host to vilify in black Mass. They do not break into Lutheran or Methodist Churches or others ect to do that. They know the presense is real. All one has to do is listen to a former Satanist and They have "black Mass". they do not have black "Service". Its a sacrificial mockery of the sacrifice of Mass. So If the sacrifice of MAss is a devlish doctrine rejected by reformers then why does Satan mock it so much. Does not the devil mock what he hates the most? I think these are strong evidences for the Catholic faith and her dogmatic truths.
I often get this question ignored when I ask it from many non Catholics. I assume they are trying to be nice. In the Catholic faith we have many documented "doctrinal miracles" or miracles associated with dogma's. Such as the miracles at Lourdes(a place where the BVM told St. Bernadette that She was "the Immaculate Conception"). This Shrine which has 69 miracles recognized by the Vatican so far and thousands of non recognized ones by the medical community and locals has brough many to the brink of faith.. Medical science has been puzzled by these and even some atheist doctors who have seen the healings have been brought to the brink of conversion because of these. So what do protestant do with these? They either have to say that these are made up(like the Atheist medical materialist do) or that they are from Satan(like the Fundies do). But the fruits seem to bring about conversion to Jesus Christ. Does this not point toward Mary's real intercession and her Immaculate Conception?? Just curious what do non-Catholic Christians do with these. And the same goes for the Eucharistic Miracles like that of Lanciano which are on display today where a host turned into visible flesh and wine visible blood which has been scientifically tested also? Does this not point toward the Catholic dogma?
What about the strong negative evidence that Satanist mock the Mass and not just any worshio service. Satanist also break into Catholic Churches and steal consecrated host to vilify in black Mass. They do not break into Lutheran or Methodist Churches or others ect to do that. They know the presense is real. All one has to do is listen to a former Satanist and They have "black Mass". they do not have black "Service". Its a sacrificial mockery of the sacrifice of Mass. So If the sacrifice of MAss is a devlish doctrine rejected by reformers then why does Satan mock it so much. Does not the devil mock what he hates the most? I think these are strong evidences for the Catholic faith and her dogmatic truths.
Do the many signs and wonders and miracles validate the theology? In truth, many people come to Christ through many rather dubious ministries.
God works in mysterious ways indeedSpeaking of dubious ministries, I'm sort of embarrassed to admit this, but at one time reading Marcus Borg and Bishop John Shelby Spong got me back into the Christian faith. It was at a time I was convinced Christianity was all about "fire insurance" for naïve people afraid of dying (at the time I was into Zen meditation, very seriously so, spending a few hours a day meditating). Today, I wouldn't recommend those sorts of books at all, but maybe I should (maybe to a total atheist?).
Just Google faith healing fakes or scams.
Other than placebo effect they either do not work or are outright scams[the usual case]
God's grace is just amazingSpeaking of dubious ministries, I'm sort of embarrassed to admit this, but at one time reading Marcus Borg and Bishop John Shelby Spong got me back into the Christian faith. It was at a time I was convinced Christianity was all about "fire insurance" for naïve people afraid of dying (at the time I was into Zen meditation, very seriously so, spending a few hours a day meditating). Today, I wouldn't recommend those sorts of books at all, but maybe I should (maybe to a total atheist?).
Yeah know enough about scamsBut amazingly some people surprisingly do get healed at some big event of a dubious ministry. I'll take the testimony of friends who were sick the one moment and healthy the next over what skeptics can come up with.
I'm a non-denominational Christian and I'm familiar with miracles, in fact depend on them. I have had several, been involved in others and know of many more who don't view miracles as unusual. Many non-Catholics have had profound ministries involving miracles, Smith Wigglesworth was one with a great deal of information left behind. According to scripture, we should expect to walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit as the norm..I have my doubts about the incident at Fatima, not that it happened, but what caused it. The is enough in the Old Testament about "The Queen of Heaven", and none of it is good. Would Mary really demand a shrine be built to her? Would she receive worship when no angel or human besides Jesus ever would? Why only appear on the 13th of each month? Maybe the purpose was to bring further attention to "Mary" and less to Jesus. "Even Satan can appear as an angel of light."There is way too much attention and worship given the "Mary". She didn't
die for the sins of the world, Jesus did. And we don't need Mary to intercede for us when scripture says Jesus is our intercessor, and we can "boldly enter the thrown room and make our needs known" because the work of Jesus has given us perfect righteousness (Rom 3:22).
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?