What is the lie in 2thess 2:11?

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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When the real deal comes it will be a brilliant coming, meaning all human life as we know it ceases and all things change to the new heavens and earth along with the resurrected saved. No human mortal being will behold his brilliant appearing, everything will melt away.
Not according to Mat 24 and Rev 19
From what I know, there are a lot of Christians that view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem and it's Temple [or at least most of it].

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...sia-of-matt-24-showing-in-revelation.7431980/

The greek word "PAROUSIA", is only mentioned only 4 times in the Gospels, all in Matthew 24.
[The other 20 times are in the Epistles.]


https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3952&t=YLT

Matthew 24:3
Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives the Disciples came toward Him according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be
and what? the sign of Thy parousiaV <3952> and the together-finish of the Age"
[Daniel 12/1Corin 15:23/Revelation 19:11]

1 Thessalonians 3:13
Into the stand-fast of ye the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us,
in the parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him
[Zech 14:5/Matt 24:3/Revelation 19:11.]

Revelation 19:11
And I saw the heaven having be opened and behold!
A white horse and the One sitting on it being called faithful and true.
And in righteousness He is judging and battling.
 
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Berean777

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We are seeing a pathway being setup to his Father's house in heaven. No one has ascended up into heaven as Jesus had once said in the presence tense, yet after his ascension there will be many that followed as Jesus woupd say ypu know the way where I am there you shall also be. So all the Holy ones with him must be his church or body of believers to migrate to join him in his Father's house. The picture one is of a seed that dies in the groud to then manifest into something else. The something else after death is the Lord from heaven, the holy ones that accompany Christ, the symbol of the white cloud.
So the way that Christ showed us is in sequence to mortal life, physical death (bitter cup), resurrection, then immortal life to be reunited with him in his Father's house. Saint Stephen beheld the Lord's appearing when he was put to death when he saw the heaven opened and he asked Jesus to receive him as one of the members of the white cloud.
Church liturgy states that the departed migrate from mortal life to eternal life with Christ. There must be something about death as part of the blood covenant mentioned in Hebrews that requires a testator to physically die before they can recieve their eternal inheritence and not before they die (Hebrews 9:17).
So believers look forward to be reunited with Christ after the earthly house our body dissolves meaning dies so that we too are reunited with Christ in heaven where he went to. John writes when we see him we shall experience the immortal life because we shall be like him and see him as he is.
 
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Berean777

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Many believers choose physical death because they knew that after physical death they too will immediately be reunited with Christ. Paul states that if the dead rise not and we only have sporutual hope then those who have previously died have perished never to rise and our hope is most miserable because we are no different to the rest of the world that perishes.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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...........
So the way that Christ showed us is in sequence to mortal life, physical death (bitter cup), resurrection, then immortal life to be reunited with him in his Father's house. Saint Stephen beheld the Lord's appearing when he was put to death when he saw the heaven opened and he asked Jesus to receive him as one of the members of the white cloud.................

http://www.christianforums.com/t6719420-8/#post42547190
Stoning of Stephen against the Law

Acts 7:
56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened and the Son of the Man standing out of rights of the God!"
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [the Lord] and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"


Reve 19:11
And I saw the heaven being opened and behold!
A white horse and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True. And in justice He is judging and battling.


Stephen was of course one of the chosen 7 in Acts 6:

Acts 6:4 and we to prayer, and to the ministration of the word, will give ourselves continually.'
5 And the thing was pleasing before all the multitude, and they did choose

Stephen/stefanon <4736> , a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, Stephen = "crowned"
and Philip/filippon <5376> , Philip = "lover of horses"
and Prochorus/procoron <4402> , Prochorus = "leader of the chorus"
and Nicanor/nikanora <3527> , Nicanor = "conqueror"
and Timon/timwna <5096> , Timon = "honourable"
and Parmenas/parmenan <3937>, Parmenas = "abiding"
and Nicolaus/nikolaon <3532>, a proselyte of Antioch/antiocea <491>, Nicolas = "victor of the people"
 
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Hawkins

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IMO the big lie begins with secularism. It is also closely tied to the mark of beast.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The question is HOW?

First, every human will have to have a religion without exception. A religion is to provide an explanation on what would happen after death.

In Genesis God hid the Tree of Life from the reach of humans. As a result, human cannot go beyond a physical death to see whether life will continue or not. They have to believe either of the following without exception. They have to pick one from two with faith without exception.

1) nothing serious would happen
2) something serious would happen, so you need to responsibly seek out what would possibly happen

If you choose 2) with faith, that becomes your religion explicitly. If you didn't choose 2 with consent, your subconsciousness made a decision for you by picking 1) with FAITH but without your own consent. It is now your religion but without your own awareness. This is how Satan plays his trick, he gave humans a religion but without those humans' own awareness. And in the end, 1) will turn out to be a lie.

Secular people choose 1) as their religion but without their own consent as a result of our secular education system. Our education system should remind us the 2 possibilities 1) and 2) listed above explicitly but it didn't. Under this secular education system, people's minds are blinded as Paul described. Our education system is thus the mark of the beast. In a modern society with modern education, everyone is given a mark in his forehead (his mind) and his right hand (his action) for them to be anti God or anti religion. They themselves have a religion but without their own awareness though.


An analogy of the situation is;

Some people sacrificed themselves in order to get the message out that there's a bomb in a mall. Theoretically people should leave that area as the warning is so serious that people died to bring this warning out. However, at the same time a delusion is given to the people in that area that they should sit down where they are to wait for the evidence. They are told that the message is not good enough, a serious claim must be supported by evidence.

In this case, 'evidence' is the delusion, and since it's a lie. The evidence will finally come along with a blast which will kill all those staying in the area waiting for the evidence.

That's the situation. In a nutshell, Satan has fooled humans through our own developed education system - the Tree of Knowledge we gain knowledge from to judge things, whether it is good or evil, right or wrong, true or false.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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IMO the big lie begins with secularism. It is also closely tied to the mark of beast.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The question is HOW?........................

An analogy of the situation is;..........................
The eyes, minds and hearts of the unbelieving apostate Jews still remain blinded and hardened till this very day, even after the prophetic destruction of Jerusalem and their Temple in ad 70. Sad but true.......

Jhn 12:40
He hath blinded G5186 their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Romans 11:
25 For not I am willing ye to being ignorant/agnoein <50> brothers of the mystery, the-this, that no ye may be beside yourselves wise.
That a hardening/pwrwsiV <4457> from part to-the Israel has become until which the filling of-the Nations may be entering
; [Mark 3:5, Ephesians 4:18]

2 Corinthians 4:
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Corin 3:14
But was hardened/epwrwqh <4456> (5681) the minds of them.
For until the today day, the same covering/veil/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/un-veiled
That In Christ it is being-taken-away


http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Jesus and Paul vs the OC Jewish Rulers

........If the Pharisees and scribes understood Yeshua's prophetic parable, it must have astonished and infuriated them. How could the Jews become alienated from God while the elect Gentiles became the "seed of Abraham"? The implication that the House of Judah and those called from the Gentile nations were to change places would have been almost impossible for the Pharisees and scribes to believe.........................

What is the "great gulf" which stands between the rich man and Lazarus? Paul aptly explains it to us in the 11th chapter of Romans. He tells us that God has blinded the Jews and "given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day" (Rom. 11:8). He goes on to say that "a partial hardening would happen to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles had come in" (Rom. 11:25).

In II Corinthians 3:14-15, Paul says that the Jews' "minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart."

.
 
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BobRyan

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From what I know, there are a lot of Christians that view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem and it's Temple [or at least most of it].

1. Revelation was written around 90 AD long after the Jews ceased to be an issue for Christians in Jerusalem.
2. Revelation covers 2000 years of the Christian church including the 2nd coming in Rev 19 and the Lake of Fire after the 1000 years of Rev 21 - going all the way to the new heavens and new earth of Rev 21. and... beyond.
3. Matt 24 deals with both the destruction of Jerusalem, the dark ages and the 2nd coming where the angels are sent out to gather the saints from the four winds of heaven.
4. The 1260 years of dark ages are in Rev 11, and in Rev 12, and in Rev 13.

Notice that in Rev 13 the Jewish nation church gives birth to the Messiah - who is then caught up to heaven - after which Satan tries to destroy the Christian church - initially through pagan Rome and later by other means.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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My prior post fits perfectly with what Paul predicts in 2Thess 2

2Thess 2

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Those who refuse the Truth found in the Word of God - will believe in the fake/false counterfeit second coming - a fake that is produced by Satan himself. Satan is allowed to first fake the second coming - before Christ comes as the real deal.[/QUOTE]
 
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Berean777

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IMO the big lie begins with secularism. It is also closely tied to the mark of beast.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The question is HOW?

First, every human will have to have a religion without exception. A religion is to provide an explanation on what would happen after death.

In Genesis God hid the Tree of Life from the reach of humans. As a result, human cannot go beyond a physical death to see whether life will continue or not. They have to believe either of the following without exception. They have to pick one from two with faith without exception.

1) nothing serious would happen
2) something serious would happen, so you need to responsibly seek out what would possibly happen

If you choose 2) with faith, that becomes your religion explicitly. If you didn't choose 2 with consent, your subconsciousness made a decision for you by picking 1) with FAITH but without your own consent. It is now your religion but without your own awareness. This is how Satan plays his trick, he gave humans a religion but without those humans' own awareness. And in the end, 1) will turn out to be a lie.

Secular people choose 1) as their religion but without their own consent as a result of our secular education system. Our education system should remind us the 2 possibilities 1) and 2) listed above explicitly but it didn't. Under this secular education system, people's minds are blinded as Paul described. Our education system is thus the mark of the beast. In a modern society with modern education, everyone is given a mark in his forehead (his mind) and his right hand (his action) for them to be anti God or anti religion. They themselves have a religion but without their own awareness though.


An analogy of the situation is;

Some people sacrificed themselves in order to get the message out that there's a bomb in a mall. Theoretically people should leave that area as the warning is so serious that people died to bring this warning out. However, at the same time a delusion is given to the people in that area that they should sit down where they are to wait for the evidence. They are told that the message is not good enough, a serious claim must be supported by evidence.

In this case, 'evidence' is the delusion, and since it's a lie. The evidence will finally come along with a blast which will kill all those staying in the area waiting for the evidence.

That's the situation. In a nutshell, Satan has fooled humans through our own developed education system - the Tree of Knowledge we gain knowledge from to judge things, whether it is good or evil, right or wrong, true or false.

Square heads of the beasts playground.
 
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Fireinfolding

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God is shown sending a lying spirit (singular) into the mouths of many prophets (which is as one spirit working in many) in 1Kings 22:22 and [even him] whose coming would likewise be after the working of Satan (who is a liar) and the father of it the same having all power and signs and lying wonders

Which would make sense as well if you receive not a love for the truth what would you have left really?
 
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Fireinfolding

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It's also interesting to note that Jesus Christ talks about "false christs and false prophets" who shall show great signs/wonders that they would deceive the elect if that were possible (Mt. 24:24). Notice Christ uses the plural while Paul is certainly referring to the man of sin (aka the antichrist).

Hi Achilles, Peace to you, hope you are doing well,

You can probably see the lying spirit (singular) which God sends in 1 Kings 22:22 where He puts it in the mouth of many prophets ( plural). Shows one lying spirit (singular) there working in many (which would make many deceivers). And just as we are one body (being many members) of one Spirit (even the Spirit of truth) this shows similar but of a spirit of a lie (even him also) which is after "the working of" Satan). So its a lie, even as He is the father of lies so it is after His working.

Christ uses the plural of prophets (in the many) and Paul speaks of a him (coming) singularly but "in them" (plural) just as in the above one spirit (even a lying spirit) which is after a working (even Satan's) in a them (plural)


Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they
should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We see a him coming with such deceiveableness the in "them"
whose coming (singularly) is according to that working "in them" (plural)
 
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Fireinfolding

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Yes, and notice also that Christ says that these signs/wonders (evidences) are so powerful that they would deceive the elect, if that were possible. It must be some sign/wonder against the Bible and against the gospel of Jesus Christ. Islam/Darwin fit into that category.

Excluding Revelation heres a few lying signs and wonders verses

2448006


Just posting to your reference of it.
 
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