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What is the Eastern Orthodox view of the atonement?

Ignatius21

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There is an interesting essay "Salvation By Christ: A Response to Credenda / Agenda on Orthodoxy's Teaching of Theosis and the Doctrine of Salvation,"
by Carmen Fragapane.

That was a pretty good article. I remember the Credenda/Agenda articles attacking Orthodoxy. They sounded as though a few people speed-read through a book on Orthodoxy, visited a Greek festival, and then proceeded to attack something they had no understanding of. Those were embarassingly bad.

"Scholars have often despaired of discovering any single unifying
thought in the Patristic teaching about the redemption. These various theories, however, despite appearances, should not be regarded as in fact mutually incompatible. They were all of them attempts to elucidate the same great truth from different angles; their superficial divergences are often due to the different Biblical images from which they started, and there is no logical reason why, carefully stated, they should not be regarded as complimentary". And this is precisely what we find in Orthodoxy: "While insisting in this way upon the unity of Christ's saving economy, the Orthodox Church has never formally endorsed any particular theory of atonement. The Greek Fathers, following the New Testament, employ a rich variety of images to describe what the Savior has done for us. These models are not mutually exclusive; on the contrary, each needs to be balanced by the others. Five models stand out in particular: teacher, sacrifice, ransom, victory and participation" ..."

Interestingly, punishment isn't on the list here. Of course, even terms like "sacrifice" and "ransom" came to change their connotations...sacrifice to appease God's justice as a punishment, or ransom paid to God, etc.
 
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Philothei

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The ransom is paid to the devil... not God one has to be careful about what the 'ransom" is refered to also.

Wesleyan Arminian: Atonement Series: Ransom / Christus Victor

That was the only source I could find on line. But the ransom also is used as a "motif" or "theme" so we can understand the sacrifice of Christ. I think that we will fully understand when we are (God willing) with Him in Heaven.

I would rather stick to St. Athanasius explanation of incarnation that "God became man so man can become god " ;) and leave it at that. I think the idea of "incarnation theology" that exists in EO tops all in a way and places the "redemption" in a God oriented perspective than a human's perspective.
 
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Anna Scott

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Thanks to everyone for so many detailed posts. Please forgive me for not responding to everyone, individually. I've been a bit under the weather the last few days (actually for most of the last week.)

I read every post several times. I do agree that one can see elements of penal substitution in Holy Scripture; yet God did say He desires mercy, not sacrifice. So, I see Christ coming to walk among us to set things right again---due to the disordered relationship between God and mankind created by Adam's sin and subsequently by ours.

Christ demonstrated the ultimate self-giving, self-sacrificing love suffering the worst that could be done to any man, and pouring out Himself even to death and beyond. He was resurrected as Christ the Victor--having conquered sin and death, reconciling us to the Father. That seems to be what most of you have said in one way or another. Please correct me, if I have misunderstood.

I am certain that in this lifetime, there will always be elements of mystery in the details of salvation and the atonement.

I do still have a few questions, if you will indulge me a bit further:

When Christ asked the Father to "let this cup pass" from Him (but yielded to the will of the Father)---was "the cup" a reference to the necessity of His descent into Hell?

Or was "the cup" bearing the sins of the world?--which I guess could also be a reference to Hell, which is the consequence of sin.

Regarding the words of Christ from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Since Christ is God, how can God forsake Him? I have never understood this. Didn't He remain fully man and fully God? I don't understand how the Holy Trinity could be separated.

Also---regarding the spirits, who awaited Christ in prison; was this prison Hell or was this prison another place?

Did Christ suffer in hell, as the lost will suffer?

Matthew 26:39 (ESV) 39And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."

2 Corinthians 5:21
(ESV) 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Matthew 27:46 (ESV)
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

1 Peter 3:18-20
(ESV) 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, that he might bring us to God, being put to death eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Acts 2:29-33
(ESV)

29"Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

Ephesians 4:4-10 (ESV)
4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says,

"When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men."

9( In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Again, thanks for all the great posts from everyone.

Peace,
Anna

 
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Dorothea

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Thanks to everyone for so many detailed posts. Please forgive me for not responding to everyone, individually. I've been a bit under the weather the last few days (actually for most of the last week.)
I'm sorry to read this. I hope you feel better soon.

When Christ asked the Father to "let this cup pass" from Him (but yielded to the will of the Father)---was "the cup" a reference to the necessity of His descent into Hell?

Or was "the cup" bearing the sins of the world?--which I guess could also be a reference to Hell, which is the consequence of sin.
I'll let Fr. David from his lecture, answer you, if you don't mind:

"After giving the Eucharist to His disciples, Jesus goes to His arrest and betrayal in the garden of Gesthemene, but before that betrayal happens, something else happens. He becomes again identified with the sin of the world in the most direct way that has happened in His life. That is His agony there in which He prays, the Gospel tells us that He is overcome with sorrow and troubled from the depths of His being and prays to His Father in the true expression of His human will - 'Let this cup pass from me. Nevertheless, not My will, but Yours be done. Father, if this cup cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.' And we are told that in His agony, an angel came to strengthen Him, and His sweat became great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Saints in the Church see this as a self-offering of Christ - before the hands of those who will torture and kill Him, the blood begins to drain from His body."

Regarding the words of Christ from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Since Christ is God, how can God forsake Him? I have never understood this. Didn't He remain fully man and fully God? I don't understand how the Holy Trinity could be separated.
Again, here's Fr. David:

When Jesus Christ is hanging on the Cross, he is heard saying, 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me." He is reciting the psalm of David that prophesized this exact moment - 'why are you so far from helping me from the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer by night, but find no rest, yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel, our Fathers entrusted in you......'

Right from the beginning, that expression: 'My God, My God...' is not an expression of despair. That psalm, if you read it all the way through, is continually expressing confidence and trust in God, even in the midst of the agony of forsakenness and death." Fr. David finishes reading the psalm.

He is not forsaken. The depth of His suffering - He who is Life is being united with death. That He who is goodness is being identified with sin, that He is the blessing is now the cursed. 'The Law of Moses said cursed is anyone who hangs on the tree.' In fact, that is why the Jewish authorities wanted Him to be handed over to the gentiles to be put to death, so that He would be put to death by hanging on the tree because one who's hung on the tree is cursed by God. Christ descended into death to break the power of death.

Also---regarding the spirits, who awaited Christ in prison; was this prison Hell or was this prison another place?

Did Christ suffer in hell, as the lost will suffer?
It's known as hades/sheol, as far as I know. Here's a great article on Christ descended into hell/hades. It's loonnngg, but an excellent read:

Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev on the Descent of Christ into Hades « Glory to God for All Things

I'm on my hubby's laptop, so the saved document I had I couldn't find, so I am using another website that has copied Bishop Hilarion's writing on this subject there.
 
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Philothei

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When Christ asked the Father to "let this cup pass" from Him (but yielded to the will of the Father)---was "the cup" a reference to the necessity of His descent into Hell?

Or was "the cup" bearing the sins of the world?--which I guess could also be a reference to Hell, which is the consequence of sin.

Regarding the words of Christ from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Since Christ is God, how can God forsake Him? I have never understood this. Didn't He remain fully man and fully God? I don't understand how the Holy Trinity could be separated.

Also---regarding the spirits, who awaited Christ in prison; was this prison Hell or was this prison another place?

Did Christ suffer in hell, as the lost will suffer?

Matthew 26:39 (ESV) 39And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."

2 Corinthians 5:21
(ESV) 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Matthew 27:46 (ESV)
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

1 Peter 3:18-20
(ESV) 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, that he might bring us to God, being put to death eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Acts 2:29-33
(ESV)

29"Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

Ephesians 4:4-10 (ESV)
4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says,

"When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men."

9( In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Again, thanks for all the great posts from everyone.

Peace,
Anna



You got the general message and kudos to you Anna :) Salvation is God's doing and etc. :) Nice job putting it in a nutshell

The "cup" theme is put in the Bible IMHO to show us the weak nature of Christ the human nature of Christ. I think that way we are shown that Christ was fully human and indeed afraid of death. That would be also a good example against the one's who did not think that Christ was also man.

Christ asking why he was forshaken is also a sign of weakness and a temptation from the devil. God did not forshaken Him. Christ was tempted at the Cross as much as He was tempted at the Garden.

The Trinity are three persons. Now you confuse natures (human iand divine that existed in Christ as the Son of God) with persons of the Trinity. Christ had free will as he was human and God also. His temptation as fully human did not interfere with his divinity as both natures co-existed in one person as the son of God. The Son did not act independendly of the Father or the Spirit. They were of one wil and one mind. Nothing the Father willed the Sod did not or the Spirit.

The trick is about the duality of the natures not the Trinity.

Christ decended to Hell but he was not overtaken by Hell. He died a bodily death but his spirit was alive. God cannot die so Christ died only a bodily death and he was ressurected the third day. We do not try to "pry" to this mystery of 'descent" into Hades though. We just accept it as we do not even know how the two natures relate to each other and that would fall into a speculation that took Christians centuries to come up with with the council of Chalchedon and still a sticky issue for many including our brother the Coptic Orthodox. :( So IMHO we will never know or will be revealed all these truths with our (God willing ) ressurection and second coming.
 
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This is an exceptionally well-written post, Ignatius. Bravo. In Orthodox discussions I've had, absolutely no quarter was given to Western thinking. Catholics and Protestants are usually brushed off as believing in a "child abuse" model of Atonement with an "angry, nasty Father God." Of course, that's polemical and not accurate. You provided some insight into how complicated and NOT totally dogmatic the Atonement is. It's complicated to be sure. And there are plenty of Scriptural references that point to a substitutionary model, the need for blood sacrifice, God's wrath is noted in abundance, etc. But yet on the other hand, Christus Victor, Christ's overcoming death, is by no means not a reality either. Thanks very much.



As I was able to understand it, the penal substitution view (at least in the Reformed/Calvinist sense) really turned on an understanding of a certain "divine dilemma" for God, in which his infinite mercy and infinite justice had to be reconciled.

Because he his perfectly just, he cannot forgive without punishing sin...or else, so the reasoning goes, he would be unjust. Verses like Exodus 34:6-7, "I am the LORD...a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation" are often cited to support this.

On the other hand, because he is perfectly loving, he cannot completely condemn the entire creation and so therefore must redeem it, and man with it as his own image-bearers.

Therefore, Jesus who is perfectly sinless voluntarily receives the punishment due to the whole human race (which in Calvin's own writings involved rejection from God and actual suffering in Hades, as a condemned person) so that God's justice is satisfied and his anger is taken away from us. They speak of the "double transaction" wherein our total sinfulness is imputed to him and punished on the cross, and his total obedience is imputed to us (well, to the elect, anyway). Jesus of course destroyed death and the power of the devil in his resurrection, and now all who are joined to him by faith are "saved" in the sense that all sins (past, present and future) all already punished...and that Christ's "infinite merit" is now ours, meaning that he's basically earned heaven for us.

I've always thought that penal substitution really only made logically consistent sense in the Calvinist model, where Christ paid the full penalty for those chosen for salvation and no others, lest he shed his blood for anyone who chooses otherwise and therefore "wastes the blood."

Of course this is all caught up in the medeival system of penance, which was bound up with "temporal punishments owed in purgatory," and various sorts of "merit" that could be given to a Christian for good works or acts of contrition, etc. The Reformers were working in basically the same framework but sought to remove the idea that "temporal punishment" always loomed over people...if Christ really took the punishment for us, then he took all of it, meaning there's no purgatory and no temporal debt.

Where that all broke down for me, was that the underlying assumption of what it meant for God to be "just" seemed rather restrictive and human. It treats God's Law as though it looms above him and cannot be transgressed, and therefore forgiveness really is conditional, given only when punishment is served, and therefore isn't actually forgiveness at all. Jesus taught us to pray that God would forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us...meaning freely and totally. We are supposed to forgive without exacting vengeance.

Since all the underlying assumptions are different in Orthodoxy...we aren't born condemned because of the sin of another (whether "real" or "imputed"), God does not have to punish in order to forgive, etc. then the whole model of atonement in the West doesn't even fit.

I'm still learning, and it isnt' nearly as precisely formulated in the East as it is in various Western confessions, which are scholastic and precise and excruciatingly detailed. It seems that Jesus did in fact suffer in our place, accepting the consequences of sin that we'd brought upon ourselves. His sacrifical death did fulfill the entire system of blood sacrifice in the Old Covenant, and what he voluntarily accepted were all the curses of the Law...death, abandonment, being carried outside the camp where the unclean things were (see Hebrews), and so forth. But, just as lepers became clean by touching him (the reverse of the Law, where a clean person became unclean), Christ through his sacrifice made humanity clean again. Death was destroyed in his resurrection. All those who approach God through Christ are clean and holy, forgiven and accepted. His body became the veil that separated the common from the holy, and through him we enter into true communion with God. In the Eucharist we unite ourselves to his sacrifice and through Him offer ourselves to God as living sacrifices. All is fulfilled.

We then struggle against sin, against our own passions, and those things that still try to hold us back (what Paul calls the "old man") in a process of deepening our union with Christ, of becoming what we already are. We are saved, but yet being saved. Holy, yet being sanctified. Justified, yet being made right before God.

"Already, but not yet" and all that.

So far that's the best I can understand of where I am now. The beauty is that all the trappings of merit, punishment, and all the medieval ideas that led to the Reformation and the splintering of Western Christianity, aren't there. I don't need to lay out a billion bullet points of everything Christ fulfilled or did..."he is all, and in all." And I don't need to divide myself from the person next to me because I see the atonement a little more this way, and he sees it a little more that way...we're both sinners, saved by grace, coming to Christ in repentence to receive forgiveness and approach him and truly unite with him, body and spirit, in the Eucharist. It kind of makes your jaw drop and the details kind of fade.

Talk about a "personal relationship" with Christ!
 
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Very few Orthodox scholars I have read believe the ransom was paid to the devil; God owes Satan nothing. In Christus Victor, God is conquerer of death. He takes what he wants. He enters hell and really death itself receives a ransom of sorts, not in direct payment by Christ to Satan but in a manner of speaking since Christ pays the price of dying and overcoming death, busting out of hell with fury and glory, dragging the new Man into a world where death doesn't dwell. Where the old man, Adam, lives and dies, through our baptism we enter into the NEW man, Christ, who dies but overcomes it. We'll do the same. So really the ransom wasn't paid to Satan, the father of lies who doesn't deserve a nickel of payment from the Divine. That's the consensus of what I read in Orthodox circles. Some fathers were proponents of that Satan receives a ransom approach and it was Anselm's reaction to it "Satan doesn't deserve payment!" that created the substitutionary Atonement views that we read in Western thinking....

The ransom is paid to the devil... not God one has to be careful about what the 'ransom" is refered to also.

Wesleyan Arminian: Atonement Series: Ransom / Christus Victor

That was the only source I could find on line. But the ransom also is used as a "motif" or "theme" so we can understand the sacrifice of Christ. I think that we will fully understand when we are (God willing) with Him in Heaven.

I would rather stick to St. Athanasius explanation of incarnation that "God became man so man can become god " ;) and leave it at that. I think the idea of "incarnation theology" that exists in EO tops all in a way and places the "redemption" in a God oriented perspective than a human's perspective.
 
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Ignatius21

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For anyone interested, I'm in the beginnings of a very irenic discussion of atonement with some Presbyterians in another CF subforum. It's been interesting so far, as they are arguing somewhat against the "penal substitution model" as I described it in an earlier post in this thread.

I'm not going to debate anything there as it's not the proper forum, but it's been a good and peaceful exchange so far :)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7585007/

If anyone is interested.
 
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Philothei

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Very few Orthodox scholars I have read believe the ransom was paid to the devil; God owes Satan nothing. In Christus Victor, God is conquerer of death. He takes what he wants. He enters hell and really death itself receives a ransom of sorts, not in direct payment by Christ to Satan but in a manner of speaking since Christ pays the price of dying and overcoming death, busting out of hell with fury and glory, dragging the new Man into a world where death doesn't dwell. Where the old man, Adam, lives and dies, through our baptism we enter into the NEW man, Christ, who dies but overcomes it. We'll do the same. So really the ransom wasn't paid to Satan, the father of lies who doesn't deserve a nickel of payment from the Divine. That's the consensus of what I read in Orthodox circles. Some fathers were proponents of that Satan receives a ransom approach and it was Anselm's reaction to it "Satan doesn't deserve payment!" that created the substitutionary Atonement views that we read in Western thinking....

I would rather see that with a bit of evidence... The hymnology of our chruch testifies that the ransom was paid to the satan it is the hymns that are sang during Holy Week but regardless I will retract my statement as it is a "allegorical" notion of the Church as per the explanation of the atonement. For sure the Fathers though saw the sacrifice of Christ as the "fixing" of the human nature, restoring it. So the Fathers do say:

"To reconcile us with the Father, at His Father's wish the Son deliberately gave Himself to death on our behalf so that, just as He consented to be dishonoured for our sake by assuming our passions, to an equal degree He might glorify us with the beauty of His own divinity." - St Maximus the Confessor.

"He, the Mighty One, the Artificer of all, Himself prepared this body in the virgin as a temple for Himself, and took it for His very own, as the instrument through which He was known and in which He dwelt. Thus, taking a body like our own, because all our bodies were liable to the corruption of death, He surrendered His body to death instead of all, and offered it to the Father." - St Athanasius the Great




As far as Anslem's view of ransom I clearly do not see that the reason was the 'reaction" to the Satan claim rather that the 'retribution" had to be "done" and there has to be a 'victim' to pay it. Pretty legalistic view of a "willfull sacrifice" indeed...
 
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For anyone interested, I'm in the beginnings of a very irenic discussion of atonement with some Presbyterians in another CF subforum. It's been interesting so far, as they are arguing somewhat against the "penal substitution model" as I described it in an earlier post in this thread.

I'm not going to debate anything there as it's not the proper forum, but it's been a good and peaceful exchange so far :)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7585007/

If anyone is interested.

Interesting thread. I have nothing to add to it. But I'll comment here that if they were any kind of Presbyterian other than PCUSA, I don't think they'd be having that discussion. Having been PCA, I'd had a very low view of the PCUSA (the one in my home town would give "civil union" ceremonies for homosexual couples). It's good to read Solichristos' and Hedrick's posts.
 
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Dorothea

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I don't believe we paid a ransom to the devil/Satan. At least that's not been taught to me or what I've watched and learned in the lectures I've seen.

St. Gregory the Theologian - "Now we are on this to examine another fact and dogma, which in my judgment, is very necessary to inquire into. to whom was that blood offered that was shed for us, and why was it shed? I mean the precious and famous blood of our God and High Priest and Sacrifice. We were detained in bondage by the evil one. Sold under sin, and receiving pleasure in exchange for wickedness. Now, since a ransom belongs only to him who holds in bondage, I ask then to whom was this offered and for what cause? If it was offered to the evil one, what an outrage to say such a thing. If the robber receives ransom not only from God, but a ransom which consists of God Himself and has such a lusterous payment for his tyranny, then it would have been right for Him to have left us alone all together. But if it was offered to God the Father, I ask first how? For it was not by God the Father that we were being oppressed. And next, on what principle did the blood of His only begotten Son delight the Father who would not even receive Isaac when he was being sacrificed by his father, Abraham, but changed the sacrifice by putting a ram in his place. Is it not evident that the Father accepts Him, but neither asked for, that neither asked for the sacrifice, nor demanded it, but on account of the Incarnation, and because humanity must be sanctified by the humanity of God, voluntarily, that He might deliver Himself and overcome the tyrant and draw us to Himself by the mediation of His Son, who also arranged this to the honor of the Father, whom it is clear, He obeys in all things."
 
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Ignatius21

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Interesting thread. I have nothing to add to it. But I'll comment here that if they were any kind of Presbyterian other than PCUSA, I don't think they'd be having that discussion. Having been PCA, I'd had a very low view of the PCUSA (the one in my home town would give "civil union" ceremonies for homosexual couples). It's good to read Solichristos' and Hedrick's posts.

Amen to that. In the OPC I think you'd be drawn and quartered for not emphasizing punishment. I once learned the adage "We are saved by God, from God, to serve God."

No death...no devil...that all sort of fades into the background.
 
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Philothei

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I don't believe we paid a ransom to the devil/Satan. At least that's not been taught to me or what I've watched and learned in the lectures I've seen.

St. Gregory the Theologian - "Now we are on this to examine another fact and dogma, which in my judgment, is very necessary to inquire into. to whom was that blood offered that was shed for us, and why was it shed? I mean the precious and famous blood of our God and High Priest and Sacrifice. We were detained in bondage by the evil one. Sold under sin, and receiving pleasure in exchange for wickedness. Now, since a ransom belongs only to him who holds in bondage, I ask then to whom was this offered and for what cause? If it was offered to the evil one, what an outrage to say such a thing. If the robber receives ransom not only from God, but a ransom which consists of God Himself and has such a lusterous payment for his tyranny, then it would have been right for Him to have left us alone all together. But if it was offered to God the Father, I ask first how? For it was not by God the Father that we were being oppressed. And next, on what principle did the blood of His only begotten Son delight the Father who would not even receive Isaac when he was being sacrificed by his father, Abraham, but changed the sacrifice by putting a ram in his place. Is it not evident that the Father accepts Him, but neither asked for, that neither asked for the sacrifice, nor demanded it, but on account of the Incarnation, and because humanity must be sanctified by the humanity of God, voluntarily, that He might deliver Himself and overcome the tyrant and draw us to Himself by the mediation of His Son, who also arranged this to the honor of the Father, whom it is clear, He obeys in all things."
OK. I agree that we did not pay the ransom. Maybe re-reading my post you can see that is not what it meant? ;) Christ did take out the evil one and he restored us. The "evil one" had us hostage for indeed we could not "overcome" our condition by ourselves for sure...We are saved through His Grace and mercy in conquring the evil one. The 'ransom' is not literal but aligorical that is what I meant. God does not have to "pay" as the devil is already defeated by God. The whole Christ event is though an event of Christ conquering death and evil. That we cannot deny or then we should fail to understand the whole incarnation event. The resurrection of Christ is victory over the evil one regardless or not it was all under God's own plan. Still the evil one was conquered that we might be liberated from the bound of death and life eternal. Christ opened the gates of Paradise for us. Was that a sacrifice? Sure it was when Christ conduscended to take upon himself to be a man/ God and go through death and resurrection.

http://oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=20

Also from the Proskomede service (the service prior to the Divine office : the Divine Liturgy)
The Proskimidi is concluded with this prayer
"O God, our God, Who has sent us the Heavenly Bread, the Food of the entire world, our Lord and our God Jesus Christ, to save us, to ransom us, to do us good, to bless and sanctify us; do Thou Thyself bless this offering and accept it at Thine Altar above the Heavens. Remember in Thy Goodness and loving kindness both those who brought this offering, and those for whom they brought it; and keep us blameless in the celebration of Thy Holy Sacraments; for Holy and glorious is Thy name, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, always, now and forever and from all ages to all ages. Amen."
http://orthodoxeducation.blogspot.com/
 
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Thekla

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I think the allegorical sense of the ransom (at least as I understand it, and I'm not certain that allegory is even the correct word here) centers more on the "death", the separation of body and soul at death.

To the extent that death reigned, that death was a result of sin (etc.). Because Christ was incarnate, Satan assumed that this was 'his' to accept into death, and thus accepted Christ into Hades - accepted He that was without sin ('cause Christ "looked" like a human).

In this sense the "ransom" is not a pay-off.

I don't know if this makes any sense - sorry !
 
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