What is the difference?

[brother daniel]

I was thinking how to get to the 40 acres of property that he's taking care of ... and to have a barbeque.

Beloved brethren,

I am located in the town of Bethel, where the 1969 Woodstock Festival was held.

"Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.

The property is located on Royce Road near the CITGO station on 17b. Ask for brother Daniel there.
They will tell you how to get to the woods I caretake.

I can offer, year round, all weather free camping space to disciples of Jesus on a day to day basis.

Pot Luck
The fire never goes out at my camp, I have lots of firewood.

Here is a some background on how I got here.
http://www.woodstocknation.org/wstmtses.htm

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Edial]

Jesus is already in the midst of us. We dont need exactly 2 or 3 of us.

I'll bring some kebabs and beers.

well, let's get few more people and off we go.

I live in New York, so Catskills is doable.

I do not think brother daniel knows what he is getting into. .

 

[brother daniel]

well, let's get few more people and off we go.

I live in New York, so Catskills is doable.

I do not think brother daniel knows what he is getting into. .

Beloved,
Brother daniel is a dead man and greatfull that Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

When we walk by faith we never know what we are getting into. Jesus said commit your ways unto God and he will direct your direct your steps.

I dont want to be selfish or a hypocrite.
Expect a change.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Sleaker]

Potentially, the house church will make it easier to combine God with life, church with lifestyle, because the "sacred" and "secular" places are the same.

Unfotunately, this dualism does persist for many house churches, combined with the western notion of a house being private, you end up with another "secular"/"sacred" divide!

So, you cant really guarantee any one group being more christlike than any other... it's down to people... and we all royally mess up and excell fom time to time!!!!

But this, I think, is an important distinctiv and difference between house and institutional church... questioning the divide btween "sacred" and "secular" - whether it be "sundays", "places of worship", "work" or our very lifestyle.

Mm I like what you said:

Also I think there's a very large distinction in numbers. Institution churches usually have larger congregations (hundreds) where as the home church I attend is only about 30 and not everyone goes on a given day. With that said, I believe that there is less problems with the ruling leaders mentality. Meaning that the leaders rule the church and the flock just gives money (I realize this is an overgeneralization). In the house church almost everyone has a function or uses some of their gifts, there is no coming on Sunday and leaving with only hearing a preacher and singing a couple songs, maybe taking communion. That's what I experienced with Institution church, often. But because of the less of a size you can't sneak in and out without getting noticed.

With that, this usually means in our group: If you are here for the first time and a believer you get prayed, and prophesied over, asked if you have any needs etc. And we try and help as best we can. There isn't an extended preaching time, usually someone teaches for about 20 minutes then we split up into groups and discuss. We have learned that people remember things a lot more if they are actively participating in a discussion rather than hearing someone preach at them.

I'm not saying all House Churches are like this, or that we have it all right.. We earnestly seek to please God in what we do and we have been known to mess up and have to restructure quite a few times because the most of the people have gotten complacent. Usually because we slipped into some form of set structure.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

I've never struggled to find a small church set up to be part of. I've always avoided the big boys.

 

[brother daniel]

I've never struggled to find a small church set up to be part of. I've always avoided the big boys.

Dear brethren,
When we view ourselves on with Jesus Christ that joins us with a great multitude who we might not care for personly.

I see each of us have a calling to bring Jesus into everything we do.

For many reasons some of us find little face to face fellowship in Christ.

I am of that opinion its because we are not walking as he instructed his disciples and teaching others.

Today I am seeking to correct my own obedience to Christs word.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Edial]

Dear brethren,
When we view ourselves on with Jesus Christ that joins us with a great multitude who we might not care for personly.

I see each of us have a calling to bring Jesus into everything we do.

For many reasons some of us find little face to face fellowship in Christ.

I am of that opinion its because we are not walking as he instructed his disciples and teaching others.

Today I am seeking to correct my own obedience to Christs word.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[brother daniel]

Dear brother Edial,
I like your smile.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The only way I can correct my old self is to let the Holy Ghost remind me of the words of Jesus ,so that I can change my attitude and repent from what I want or imagine.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=6&verse=56&version=kjv
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Should Our Father make a way for you to visit here we will feast on the bread that cometh down from heaven.

It is the words of Jesus that give us eternal life.

Jhn 6:56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


Jhn 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.


Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jhn 12:49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.


Jhn 12:50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Dear brethren,
When we view ourselves on with Jesus Christ that joins us with a great multitude who we might not care for personly.

I see each of us have a calling to bring Jesus into everything we do.

For many reasons some of us find little face to face fellowship in Christ.

I am of that opinion its because we are not walking as he instructed his disciples and teaching others.

Today I am seeking to correct my own obedience to Christs word.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

You confused me there.

Are you questioning why I avoid mega-churches, or sympathising? Try not to talk like King James

 

[brother daniel]

You confused me there.

Are you questioning why I avoid mega-churches, or sympathising? Try not to talk like King James

Dear brother and brethren,

What ever I say is always to "you" who is reading this, I dont know who that will be and I try to avoid directing my comments to one person only.

However with you ,dear FLANDIDLYANDERS,I can relate to an objection to any contrived assembly that is called church no matter how ancient or modern the tradition.

We are on new ground here and for me it is what is ment by eklassia in the Greek and church in English.

It is diretly related to the 12 tribes of Israel that came out of Egypt with Moses.

Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Jam 1:1¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


I cannot talk like king James but I do use that translation for many reasons. One is because the English language in the time of Shakespear and King James was at its peak, and ment what it said. Modern English has become very watered down. There is no doubt that we can continue to clairfy confusion in the early Englash translation but there doesent seem to be many places in need of that.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Sleaker]

I think he's sympathising with yah

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

However with you ,dear FLANDIDLYANDERS,I can relate to an objection to any contrived assembly that is called church no matter how ancient or modern the tradition.


I cannot talk like king James but I do use that translation for many reasons.

Indeedily doodily doo. I was refering to your own English. I find it hard to follow at times due to anachronistic linguistics - ww, LL Cool J should write that down!

Church means mob. The 12 Tribes may just have been a reference to the reciepients of the leters being Jewish, but it's not really important! Yes, we as christians supercede any benefits befitting the Jews due to their rejection of how God had evolved his (not theirs) faith. So agreed, again.

KJV is literal, yes, and literal aint always best for poetry and analogies etc. Which is why I try to use a whole heap of Bibles and interlnears and mates who read and speak the hebrew/greek... not that i get anything any more "right" sometimes!!!!!!

 

[brother daniel]

Indeedily doodily doo. I was refering to your own English. I find it hard to follow at times due to anachronistic linguistics - ww, LL Cool J should write that down!

Thank you, as I read mostly old books and do not have assocation with well spoken English people, I am sure my language is anachronistic. I am not up on the doodly doos or hipity hopity.

Church means mob. The 12 Tribes may just have been a reference to the reciepients of the leters being Jewish,

You may have your own meaning for the word "church",
but as used in scripture it refers to the 12 tribes of israel people called out of Egypt,in the old testiment who were gathered together with Moses. Jews included

In the New testiment it applies the lost Jews of Jerusalem who were gathered around Jesus as disciples and starting with Cornelius, the gentile and all who follow him to this day.

Act 10:1¶There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band],

but it's not really important! Yes, we as christians supercede any benefits befitting the Jews due to their rejection of how God had evolved his (not theirs) faith. So agreed, again.

KJV is literal, yes, and literal aint always best for poetry and analogies etc. Which is why I try to use a whole heap of Bibles and interlnears and mates who read and speak the hebrew/greek... not that i get anything any more "right" sometimes!!!!!!

I also am studying and learning with the brethren I meet on this forum. This is what I use online for ready referance. http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html
as well as this http://www.blueletterbible.org/

I suspect the Keltic/Greek word "kirk" meaning circle, as a circle of friends is the root of the English word Church used in place of Ekklasia meaning seperated.

Because of adherance to the words of Jesus, we are in this world but not part of it, being seperated from sin.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is there a difference between a house church and a church?
Is the difference only in a structure of a building or is there more to it than that?

Thanks,
Ed

I've seen many house churches that do this too, but practically all the brick and mortar ones do:
(people find comfort in their brick and mortar, but Jesus said simply and commandingly "woe to you if you are comfortable now, for you will be tormented.")

We(the free) are totally against the 'control' that is exhibited by leaders of
religious systems over their congregations. This is one of the worst
forms of slavery.

 

[brother daniel]

I've seen many house churches that do this too, but practically all the brick and mortar ones do:
(people find comfort in their brick and mortar, but Jesus said simply and commandingly "woe to you if you are comfortable now, for you will be tormented.")

We(the free) are totally against the 'control' that is exhibited by leaders of
religious systems over their congregations. This is one of the worst
forms of slavery.

Brethren
This is what Jesus has to say about it. Rev 2:6(To the church at Ephesus) "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

Nicolaitans means "Victors over the people" translated from the Greek.

The doctrine of the Nicolaitans teaches that in order to be saved you must follow, and be faithful to, the customs and traditions of the bishops, priests, pastors, scribes, as being the highest authority, in other words, the Talmud, http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html as opposed to the commandments of God revealed to all people through the Holy Scriptures. (old and new Testaments). http://www.biblegateway.com

This doctrine of leaders and followers gets between each one of us and Jesus, as our pastor.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Edial]

Questions ...

I've seen many house churches that do this too, but practically all the brick and mortar ones do:
(people find comfort in their brick and mortar, but Jesus said simply and commandingly "woe to you if you are comfortable now, for you will be tormented.")

Are you saying that all the people that gather inside a building that has pews, altar, windows are under Christ's woe?

We(the free) are

totally against the 'control' that is exhibited by leaders of
religious systems over their congregations. This is one of the worst
forms of slavery.

Are you saying that to be out of a church building is "freedom"?

If you are saying that house churches are there primarily to be outside of "control" of "religious system" leadership, are you -
1. Presuming that all such leadership is corrupt, or ...
2. There should be no church leadership, or ...
2. Saying that there should not be any church discipline and all should do as they wish within the church?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Leadership needs redefinition, it has come a long way from the NT model of seasonal, part time, non-heirarchical relational leadership that endorses the priesthood of all believers.

 

[brother daniel]

Leadership needs redefinition, it has come a long way from the NT model of seasonal, part time, non-heirarchical relational leadership that endorses the priesthood of all believers.

Beloved,
Jesus is the one who has called us to follow him. When we lift him up, he sat he will draw all men unto us.

He tell us as his disciples he is the door.

Jhn 10:7¶Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Jhn 10:2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Becauese you or I have entered by the door, does that make us leaders even though we are shepherds?

Leadership today is based on military thinking.

I have found that any cell or house group that teaches about leadreship and not the gospel of Jesus is inevitably shealding a secret hieraarchy and doctrine.

John the baptist was a leader but he decreased as Jesus increased. Jesus calls us brother, he teaches us about OUR FATHER and OUR FATHERS KINGDOM.

Jesus never acts as a cop, telling his sheep how to do this and that. Sheep already know how to do what sheep do, eat, sleep and reproduce.

But they dont know where the good pasture is or what dangers lurk ahead.

The good shepherd follows his slowest sheep guiding them not leading.

The more he guided them to good pasture the more they trust him.

Our good pasture is the word of God found in scripture.

When we feed on scripture and act on it the sheep follow. Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. He is not looking for lost goats because goats never think they are lost.

I am a sheep, Jesus is my shepherd.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Leadership today is based on military thinking.

I would say Roman thinking, Platonic Dualism, for example. Millitary as in Legionary, I suppose, but not, say, Samurai.

I have found that any cell or house group that teaches about leadreship and not the gospel of Jesus is inevitably shealding a secret hieraarchy and doctrine.

Not sure who this is referencing. Leadership is seasonal and part-time. And is the role of servant... which we should all aspire to. No secret method there methinx
We are disciple one another and no one mediates on our behalf but Jeebus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Questions ...
Are you saying that all the people that gather inside a building that has pews, altar, windows are under Christ's woe?

Are you saying that to be out of a church building is "freedom"?

If you are saying that house churches are there primarily to be outside of "control" of "religious system" leadership, are you -
1. Presuming that all such leadership is corrupt, or ...
2. There should be no church leadership, or ...
2. Saying that there should not be any church discipline and all should do as they wish within the church?

Thanks,
Ed

no, no, no