What is "The Bible," and Why?

[JVAC]

Interesting that you bring up the Filioque because at the 3rd Council Ephesus the following was approved.
1. If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh, let him be anathema.
2. It is not permitted to produce or write or compose any other creed except the one which was defined by the holy fathers who were gathered together in the holy Spirit at Nicaea.
3. Any who dare to compose or bring forth or produce another creed for the benefit of those who wish to turn from Hellenism or Judaism or some other heresy to the knowledge of the truth, if they are bishops or clerics they should be deprived of their respective charges and if they are laymen they are to be anathematised.
#3 is the Orthodox argument against the Filioque since the West was using it to combat Arianism in Spain.
Now wouldn't #1 not sit right with Protestants on the whole Mary issue.
I am also curious about the 7th EC since it restored the use of Icons in the Church which many Protestants view as idolotry.

All protestants believe that Mary birthed Jesus, that would in essence make her a 'God Bearer' (Theotokos). However, we reject the false estimate that is made that her intersession is more powerful than ours.

 

[Lotar]

Interesting that you bring up the Filioque because at the 3rd Council Ephesus the following was approved.
1. If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh, let him be anathema.
2. It is not permitted to produce or write or compose any other creed except the one which was defined by the holy fathers who were gathered together in the holy Spirit at Nicaea.
3. Any who dare to compose or bring forth or produce another creed for the benefit of those who wish to turn from Hellenism or Judaism or some other heresy to the knowledge of the truth, if they are bishops or clerics they should be deprived of their respective charges and if they are laymen they are to be anathematised.
#3 is the Orthodox argument against the Filioque since the West was using it to combat Arianism in Spain.
Now wouldn't #1 not sit right with Protestants on the whole Mary issue.
I am also curious about the 7th EC since it restored the use of Icons in the Church which many Protestants view as idolotry.

Lutherans accept Mary as Theotokos.

From what I've read the filoque was one of the main points of disagreements in our diagogue at the end of the 16th century. I really don't know much about that whole arguement.

 

[ChoirDir]

Thanks Lotar and JVAC for your insightful posts. I remain your brethren in Christ

 

[JVAC]

Thanks Lotar and JVAC for your insightful posts. I remain your brethren in Christ

Thank you, and I do see the point you were trying to make. Some churches who go by the name protestant differ greatly and we do them no justice, being Lutheran and all.









I think if anyone wants to get the answers they would think that would be natural from this particular group of Christians they might want to say "except the Lutherans" . We aren't as radical as one might think.

 

[Lotar]

Thanks Lotar and JVAC for your insightful posts. I remain your brethren in Christ

Thanks for giving me more subjects to read up on

One more thing to note on the Lutheran concept of sola scriptura is that tradition that is not solely based on scripture but also not forbiden by it, is not necessarily bad. So, if a Lutheran (JVAC for example ) wished to pray to Mary or saints, the Lutheran Church would not forbid him from doing so. But on the same token, since the practice is based on tradition, rather than scripture, neither would the Lutheran Church make it a required practice.

 

[JVAC]

Thanks for giving me more subjects to read up on

One more thing to note on the Lutheran concept of sola scriptura is that tradition that is not solely based on scripture but also not forbiden by it, is not necessarily bad. So, if a Lutheran (JVAC for example ) wished to pray to Mary or saints, the Lutheran Church would not forbid him from doing so. But on the same token, since the practice is based on tradition, rather than scripture, neither would the Lutheran Church make it a required practice.

LOL, you remembered ! I confess, I do sometimes.

 

[BBAS 64]

BBAS,

Thanks for your response.

If all you are claiming is faith in Catholic bishops and Catholic tradition, rather than Catholic councils, then you haven't really addressed my main point. I understand why Catholics would put their faith in councils, and I understand why Catholics would put their faith in Catholic bishops like Athanasius. What I don't understand why a Protestant would unquestionably accept the teaching of Catholic bishops like Athanasius any more than a Protestant would accept the Catholic councils. In this sense, Catholic councils, Catholic bishops, Catholic popes, etc. are all the same thing: teaching from the Catholic Church.

My question is really: do Protestants rely upon the Catholic Church and its traditions to know what is scripture, or is there an outside source? How can you know the Bible is right without first acknowledging faith in the Catholic Church? Can you "just tell" what writings are scripture by looking at them and comparing them to non-scripture? Does the Holy Spirit tell you what is scripture? Does the OT canon make clear what writings would, and would not, later become the NT scriptures?

Thanks!

Good Day, RT

See if this may help: http://www.reformed.org/documents/icbi.html

There is a book that will further expound on the ideas in ths document: https://ecom.ligonier.org/ecom/product.asp?idProduct=EXP01BP

My veiw of the question is this IMO you are bound to approch the Scripture from a view of the authority of the Church as you define your Church. In a wider context the church is the body of believers.

Clement of Alex.
"For it is not now the place, but the assemblage of the elect, that I call the Church." (The Stromata, 7:5)

I see the Scripture as a God centered document and it is His proclamation.

The Scipture is God's word, he is responsible for it.
God used men to pen the words as dictated by God Himself.
God instucts his Church to go out and proclaim it as it was given.
God tells his people to learn and study it for thier own good.

Hope that helps, Read my sig.

Peace to u,

BBAS