What is the balance?

[flowerforever7]

Hi,

Okay, here's the deal: I have aspergers syndrome, and appear very normal. I do not like socializing, pretty much at all. I get annoyed when people try to sit next to me in Church (I guess so that I don't feel alone?) But I feel like I am being babysat; I have no interest in conversating with anyone. I have no interest in going to social functions. Online socializing is a bit better for me. As you know however, in the context of Church, there is a lot of socializing expected. Some comments were made at a small group tonight about how it is important to not be alone, but seek out other people in the Church and talk to them, and to be welcoming to new people. Where do I fit in all of this? I know God wants us to socialize, but I hate it and find some things people talk about pointless (small talk like what someone's child did, etc). How do you handle this? What is the balance between having aspergers syndrome and participating in standard society and Church protocol (especially God assigned protocol)?

Thanks.

 

[dayhiker]

To me this is what you want it to be. If you want to be aloner, then just tell people that you prefer the quietness of being alone or something like that.

I chose early on that people were the most interesting things in this world and started to study them. That means I also study myself. This I have found to be a very big thing to learn. Its not as intuitive as NT people find it. I study how people interact just like I studied calculus. With people there is so much to learn and many levels. Like people act differently one on one than they do in a small group, then even different again in a large group.

Small talk to humans is like grooming is to some primates. Its how they stay connected. I was like you and was pretty comfortable being a loner and studying people. But then I started to want to interact with people. Then there was a whole thing of observing how one person stops and let the next person talk or not. I'm often still slow to just in and take over a conversation in a small group. But I have learned if I want my point out there, to find a short pause and speak and keep talking. then others will let me talk. But if I'm far outside of their interest they will get bored with me and start giving signals for me to stop talking. This happened a lot when I just spouted facts. I then learned people liked stories. But I want to still five facts. So I learned to put all my facts into stories. Then it is a matter of now long or how short I make the the story!

So much to learn ... but as with any topic we get into, we can learn it.

 

[jackmt]

I have started an adult Aspie support group. We have about 10 members. It sounds like an oxymoron; the loners' social club, but we have excellent discussions and conversations with others like us who get us. One woman in her 60s said she has never in her entire life had conversations like we have. Imagine if they were all Christians (about half are). What a church that would be!

Why don't you try starting a group of your own and meet with other Christian Aspies?

 

[dayhiker]

good idea, Jack

 

[Letter Never Sent]

I'm "borderline" AS and appear very normal too. It can be tuff as people expect me to act a certain way.

Here is what I would do - find ONE person you feel somewhat comfortable around. If you can socialize with one person than you are "socializing" and no one will feel they need to babysit you. Who knows, you may end up liking it.

 

[NapoliaDinosaur]

I identify with you so much! I, too, hate small talk. I don't understand how (or why) people go from topic to topic, starting out talking about their morning and ending up talking about a sports team. It aggravates me, and I want no part in it. However, I do want actual meaningful relationships, but only if the people are willing to talk about real topics (i.e., important topics).

I'm not sure exactly where the balance is between having Asperger's and participating in church. I'm still trying to figure it out myself. I was only diagnosed six months ago, so I have a lot to learn. What I do know (which I learned from my therapist) is that you will have to take super small steps, steps that are so small most people won't even notice them. But eventually, you'll get to a point where you realize you've made progress. Maybe your first step could be observing how people interact (as aggravating as it may be) and take notes. Afterwards, put a star by one or two of the things in your notes that you might be willing or able to try yourself. Imagine yourself saying or doing whatever you picked, or imagine how someone else would say or do it, and practice by yourself. You'll probably feel stupid at first, and won't want to do it, but it will help. Eventually, you can pick one person who maybe understands Asperger's or who you trust, and try saying or doing the thing you practiced.

It's a long series of small steps, but it will be worth it if you really want it.

 

[NowhereManNot]

Hello is anybody there? is this where I belong? Is this home? Diagnosed couple weeks ago with mild to moderate Aspergers, always wondered why it was so hard to make friends. Have you noticed the 'basics' are not basic for us! Always felt like I was floundering in muddy water just keeping my head up. There come times you are tempted to convince yourself your not interested in other people, who needs them its just so exhausting maintaining normal (whatever that is) anyway. But I just couldn't seem to 'hermitise' myself succesfully. I had to confess deep down.... I need people! (but they don't seem to need me) I was so depressed when I was told the diagnosis, they say its incurable, this was like a prison sentance. My hopes of ever having healthy friendships was dashed in an instant (be ware of depression storms ... they can accompany the condition) but after 2 days of this I thought "hang on, at least now I know why I am floundering, its like Nemo swimming without a fin, I was battling trying to swim without an arm. "Aha," I thought, "I might not get my arm back but its just a matter of compensating for the missing arm!" But then all things work together for good for those in Christ Jesus, yes I am a literalist - aren't we supposed to be or is that an aspie thing too? Have been reading some of the other posts TAKE HEART ALL IS NOT LOST prisons need not be prisons to our fathers children!
Cheers

 

[jackmt]

Hello is anybody there? is this where I belong? Is this home? Diagnosed couple weeks ago with mild to moderate Aspergers, always wondered why it was so hard to make friends. Have you noticed the 'basics' are not basic for us! Always felt like I was floundering in muddy water just keeping my head up. There come times you are tempted to convince yourself your not interested in other people, who needs them its just so exhausting maintaining normal (whatever that is) anyway. But I just couldn't seem to 'hermitise' myself succesfully. I had to confess deep down.... I need people! (but they don't seem to need me) I was so depressed when I was told the diagnosis, they say its incurable, this was like a prison sentance. My hopes of ever having healthy friendships was dashed in an instant (be ware of depression storms ... they can accompany the condition) but after 2 days of this I thought "hang on, at least now I know why I am floundering, its like Nemo swimming without a fin, I was battling trying to swim without an arm. "Aha," I thought, "I might not get my arm back but its just a matter of compensating for the missing arm!" But then all things work together for good for those in Christ Jesus, yes I am a literalist - aren't we supposed to be or is that an aspie thing too? Have been reading some of the other posts TAKE HEART ALL IS NOT LOST prisons need not be prisons to our fathers children!
Cheers

You're in the right place. I was devastated and relieved at my Dx simultaneously. Devastated because (I felt) all the work I had done to overcome what was wrong with me was for nought. (Not so.) And relieved to at last have a name for why I was like I was. There is much that can be done to help manage your life now that you know.

Literal thinking is an Aspie characteristic, but that doesn't make it always wrong. Sounds like what they say about paranoid people, huh? Read through some of the other Aspie threads and add your own comments and questions. I'll look for your posts.

 

[NowhereManNot]

Really good to touch base with like minded folk I really need this right now. Just wondering those who are married to NT's, is there hope? can it work? My wife wants out I am looking at Divorce No. 2 very sad right now, it has been so difficult for both of us. My wife, once a lovely carefree happy giving person has turned into an oger (I wonder if it is a strategy to drive me away and make the divorce easier for me) I think living alone inside yourself for so long you tend to get preoccupied with your own company ie I am prone to selfishness that doesn't look like selfishness to me - I think beating this one is a major key to working around the problem - am working on this but I think youve really got to get God to give you a hand with it, this is the only sure fire cure how say you jackmt

 

[jackmt]

Really good to touch base with like minded folk I really need this right now. Just wondering those who are married to NT's, is there hope? can it work? My wife wants out I am looking at Divorce No. 2 very sad right now, it has been so difficult for both of us. My wife, once a lovely carefree happy giving person has turned into an oger (I wonder if it is a strategy to drive me away and make the divorce easier for me) I think living alone inside yourself for so long you tend to get preoccupied with your own company ie I am prone to selfishness that doesn't look like selfishness to me - I think beating this one is a major key to working around the problem - am working on this but I think youve really got to get God to give you a hand with it, this is the only sure fire cure how say you jackmt

I have been with my NT wife for 23 yrs. We have had our ups and downs as all couples do. I am recently Dxed and seeing a counselor to learn how to deal with it. I see a speech therapist who deals in adult ASDs to learn better how to communicate with the NT world in general and my wife in particular. I have also started an Adult Asperger's Support Group facilitated by another speech therapist where we learn about Aspieness and discuss our difficulties and strategies to overcome them. We have great conversations and discussions. I believe I have come a long way in the short time since I have become aware. My wife just now agreed with me, but immediately told me I spend too much time on this contraption. I have to help with dinner now.

 

[NowhereManNot]

I can relate to the problem with small talk too, but have decided that "small talk" implies "big talk" & one persons small talk is another persons big talk. If your like me you wont like hearing this but hey some medicines are just not nice...
So I think the trick is to try (in Gods Grace ie strength) to get out of the way and always always be courteous. By this I simply mean become nothing for that moment, try and think what the other person needs in that moment and have a go at meeting that need. Become dead to self alive in Christ as they say. I have actually found its like somethink literally cracks inside and you actually discover good feelings inside for that person. PS Don't give up just because it may be exhausting or they don't respond favourably ie appreciate all the 'effort' you have gone to. After all isn't this love in action anyway?

 

[hedrick]

While there are lots of advantages to socializing, I don't quite know how you'd say that it's something that is a Christian duty. Christians are told to care about other people. That is likely to require working with other people, but not necessarily socializing per se. You may find it easier to work with someone on a project with a specific goal than to just mix and chat. And I think there are ways to serve that are primarily individual.

I'm very frustrated by my own difficulties in socializing. But you don't say you're unhappy, just that you think it's a duty. And I'm not so sure about that.

[Note by that way that I do not claim to be an Aspie.]

Except maybe in megachurches, most churches get to know their members. You might consider talking with your pastor. Perhaps he could help come up with a way for folks to leave you alone when you want to be left alone.

I don't think going to social events is mandatory. I generally don't, and I was Clerk of Session.

 

[dayhiker]

let me throw a monkey wrench into the discussion.

A few yrs ago I was on a message board that was for wives with AS husbands. One of the main complaints was this. They suck the life right out of me. Now they had a long explanation about talking with their husbands and it was such an emotional drain. They felt like they gave and gave but he never gave back. They accused their NT husband of being an emotional sponge. I should have save some other their stories.

Now the 1st one I read, I figured this woman was missing something. Her husband sounds very reasonable to me. IE like me. So I'm like this woman is missing something. But over a few months wife after wife came in and told the same story over and over. I finally had to admit, that even tho their comments didn't mean anything to me and my emotions couldn't relate in anyways this was very real to them.

I have not heard this talked about in any other book or forum. But guys, there is something that wives of AS husbands are missing from us. My EX didn't word things the above way. But looking back at the reasons for our divorce, she gave some hints that this was why should didn't have love for me any more. She didn't feel any love coming from me. But I loved her a whole lot.

This fits right in with our limited ability to express our emotions. Our slowness to express our emotions. Delayed emotional expression feels fake to them. No small talk, no emotional connection. They tell you stories about their day and no sympathy expressed at the right times and they get the feeling we don't care about them. The kids are hurting in one of a hundred ways and we don't comfort them, the NT wife things we don't even love our kids.

Well, we know we love them (both wife and kids) but the wife doesn't feel it. So she gives more emotional to make up for our lack of emotional support. After years of her doing this she feels empty and that us AS husbands don't know what has happened to her. She feels she has to get out or she will die cause no life is coming from us.

We then perk up and try to say we will be there, but our mental interest is too late. Doesn't feel genuine to them. They don't want another round of emotional flatness.

If I'd not heard the above from NT wives, I never would have figured that out. It was only after I'd read so many AS wives testimonies that I would have been a fool to say they were the ones who were wrong. Once I accepted their stories, and thought it thru from my side, I can now see the dynamic at work still in my relationships. I am working now to express more, more emotions, more ME, explain more, etc. but an NT woman wants that real emotion at the right second so badly ... I almost think we are doomed. But I'm still learning about this situation.

 

[NeverEnder]

Hi,

Okay, here's the deal: I have aspergers syndrome, and appear very normal. I do not like socializing, pretty much at all. I get annoyed when people try to sit next to me in Church (I guess so that I don't feel alone?) But I feel like I am being babysat; I have no interest in conversating with anyone. I have no interest in going to social functions. Online socializing is a bit better for me. As you know however, in the context of Church, there is a lot of socializing expected. Some comments were made at a small group tonight about how it is important to not be alone, but seek out other people in the Church and talk to them, and to be welcoming to new people. Where do I fit in all of this? I know God wants us to socialize, but I hate it and find some things people talk about pointless (small talk like what someone's child did, etc). How do you handle this? What is the balance between having aspergers syndrome and participating in standard society and Church protocol (especially God assigned protocol)?

Thanks.

Hi.

I agree with what you have said, that is, I relate to your feelings because I feel the same way.

I have Aspergers and am not social. I do not set out to be asocial but I do not understand or enjoy most social situations. I abhor small-talk and generally refuse to do it with a blank look on my face.

Thank you for posting.

-Matthew-

 

[NapoliaDinosaur]

I don't think going to social events is mandatory. I generally don't, and I was Clerk of Session.

I find the above quoted statement interesting. I was recently told that if I did not go to at least every other community service project my church does, I would be forbidden from playing in the church band for a full month (I've played in the band for the past two years there). These "service projects" are often highly demanding socially, as they typically involve/require interacting and conversing with/in a large group (sometimes several hundred people).

Taking your statement into consideration, does this mean my church's mandate was unfounded, and it is not the standard procedure for churches?

--

 

[NowhereManNot]

let me throw a monkey wrench into the discussion.

A few yrs ago I was on a message board that was for wives with AS husbands. One of the main complaints was this. They suck the life right out of me. Now they had a long explanation about talking with their husbands and it was such an emotional drain. They felt like they gave and gave but he never gave back. They accused their NT husband of being an emotional sponge. I should have save some other their stories.

Now the 1st one I read, I figured this woman was missing something. Her husband sounds very reasonable to me. IE like me. So I'm like this woman is missing something. But over a few months wife after wife came in and told the same story over and over. I finally had to admit, that even tho their comments didn't mean anything to me and my emotions couldn't relate in anyways this was very real to them.

I have not heard this talked about in any other book or forum. But guys, there is something that wives of AS husbands are missing from us. My EX didn't word things the above way. But looking back at the reasons for our divorce, she gave some hints that this was why should didn't have love for me any more. She didn't feel any love coming from me. But I loved her a whole lot.

This fits right in with our limited ability to express our emotions. Our slowness to express our emotions. Delayed emotional expression feels fake to them. No small talk, no emotional connection. They tell you stories about their day and no sympathy expressed at the right times and they get the feeling we don't care about them. The kids are hurting in one of a hundred ways and we don't comfort them, the NT wife things we don't even love our kids.

Well, we know we love them (both wife and kids) but the wife doesn't feel it. So she gives more emotional to make up for our lack of emotional support. After years of her doing this she feels empty and that us AS husbands don't know what has happened to her. She feels she has to get out or she will die cause no life is coming from us.

We then perk up and try to say we will be there, but our mental interest is too late. Doesn't feel genuine to them. They don't want another round of emotional flatness.

If I'd not heard the above from NT wives, I never would have figured that out. It was only after I'd read so many AS wives testimonies that I would have been a fool to say they were the ones who were wrong. Once I accepted their stories, and thought it thru from my side, I can now see the dynamic at work still in my relationships. I am working now to express more, more emotions, more ME, explain more, etc. but an NT woman wants that real emotion at the right second so badly ... I almost think we are doomed. But I'm still learning about this situation.

Thankyou so much dayhiker I know exactly what you are talking about, perhaps we are pioneering unchartered terrritory here. When I met my wife I adored her and admired her greatly. She seemed to have it all together socially despite incredible odds. At that time I reasoned perhaps she could 'show me the way'. We discussed this a lot and I suggested that I would need a lot of feedback to acheive this. She was more than happy to take me by the hand and help me. Boy neither of us really knew what I was asking but still I am greatfull I did. We are like 'like poles of a magnet' in some ways. What is normal for her is emotionally scarey to me and what is normal for me is a vacuum to her. I think its a bit like riding a bike but having to think about it absolutely all the time. You just can't let your gaurd down for a minute. Talking about treading on ice! Yes I love her and her children and my children (We did the combined family thing) But there are times where that love has to be more driven by choice than emotion. Until I finally accepted my diagnosis I always thought that was normal - you know agape love is considered the highest form of love in christian circles. But your wife kind of becomes an extension and reflection of you. What you dish out comes right back and slaps you in the face. Your wife looks for that automatic responsiveness in you, anything else from you looks insincere. But she most likely wont understand that moments of high emotional stress virtually cripple your ability to be level headed and respond in a healthy way. That you just put your hands in front of your face to protect your eyes from the intense glare of raw emotion and she reads that as you shutting her out. Alternatively as a woman debriefs she can not feel confident that you have understood her point (not that she wants you to understand it intellectually, she just wants to FEEL you are with here there in the same place at that moment.) But you as an aspie can't seem to 'feel' it with her - it may even seem like 'small talk' to you. So she thinks she has to retread the same old ground over and over again to get that issue resolved, and you start to get gaurded, which leads to defensive, which leads to downright frustrated. One author calls it the crazy cycle its just a downward destructive spiral of catch 22 and its up to you as the husband I believe to arrest that. But its bloody hard work!! No concrete answers yet but I'm sure we can get there. Keep in touch wont you.

 

[dayhiker]

Yes, well said nowhere.
I've been here (CF) for years and no plans of leaving.