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what is that they are promoting deeper fellow junk?

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PreachersWife2004

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That's generic to all the congregational forums, actually.

Remember, CF's mission was "uniting all Christians" or some such nonsense.

We all know that something like that ain't gonna happen until we get to heaven.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I sure hope we don't go back to that as our slogan :doh:

I remember right after 7-7-7 I was gonna ask you how it felt to be a part of the ecumenical team...and then I realized it wasn't really a statement on anything, it was just called ecumenical because it was all the congregations.

And yeah, I hope we don't go back to that slogan, either.

I don't think we'll ever be united in politics, either. I know of some very "staunch" Lutherans who are pro-choice. I can't ever unite with them politically until they're not pro-choice anymore - and that won't happen anytime soon...
 
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filosofer

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I don't know about fellowship but uniting us in politics wouldn't be a bad idea.
[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Politics is not a "safe" area either. With Lutheran understanding of the two kingdoms, most Protestants wouldn't understand or accept stances on political issues. As with Luther, I would prefer a competent Turk (Muslim) than an incompetent Christian for a political ruler.

[/font]
 
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DaRev

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I don't think we'll ever be united in politics, either. I know of some very "staunch" Lutherans who are pro-choice. I can't ever unite with them politically until they're not pro-choice anymore - and that won't happen anytime soon...

Personally, I don't know how anyone can claim to be a Christian and be pro-choice. :doh:
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Personally, I don't know how anyone can claim to be a Christian and be pro-choice. :doh:

Yeah, I call it the Big Lie. Because really, you can't be both without compromising part of your Christianity. Either life is sacred or it isn't.
 
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vle045

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Yeah, I call it the Big Lie. Because really, you can't be both without compromising part of your Christianity. Either life is sacred or it isn't.
To play "devil's advocate" for a moment...

"Pro-choice", for some people, is not the same as pro-abortion. It is sometimes simply saying that they will allow others to make their own decisions and let their own conscience be their guide. It is also not saying that they condone it or promote it. But possibly simply would rather have women be in front of a doctor as opposed to in an alley if they are going to do it one way or the other.

Some people who are pro-choice would never do it themselves, would never suggest that others do it themselves.

I don't think that makes them less of a Christian.
 
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Jim47

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Life begins at conception

Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Ps 51:6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts;
you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.

Anyone who believes that choice is their right is ignoring what God tells us in His word.

We may be able to fool ourselves but we can't justify abortion to The Lord.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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To play "devil's advocate" for a moment...

"Pro-choice", for some people, is not the same as pro-abortion. It is sometimes simply saying that they will allow others to make their own decisions and let their own conscience be their guide. It is also not saying that they condone it or promote it. But possibly simply would rather have women be in front of a doctor as opposed to in an alley if they are going to do it one way or the other.

Some people who are pro-choice would never do it themselves, would never suggest that others do it themselves.

I don't think that makes them less of a Christian.

Nope, still a cop-out.

That's like saying "I'd never murder anyone, but it's that person's decision if they want to go out and murder someone." or

"I'd never steal from someone, but I'm not going to judge someone who does."

There is never a good reason for an abortion. NEVER. I'm adopted, I've given up a child for adoption and I've been faced with making the decision of not aborting versus losing my life. Hmmm...I'm still here, so apparently not abortion didn't kill me.

When we listen to the kind of logic that is posted above, we put our lives in someone else's hands other than God's. We put our trust in someone else (namely ourselves) rather than God. Being told that if I didn't have an abortion I would die was probably the hardest thing I have ever heard. And yes, in my sinful nature, I thought about what it would like to have an abortion. And in that moment I knew that I had let Satan win a round. And I felt HORRIBLE. I prayed and I prayed and I prayed, and what I got was this:

Romans 8:31-39
What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all-how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I knew in that moment that I had to put my life in GOD'S hands, not mine. And I knew that abortion was not the answer. Even had I died, I was in God's hands.

And ever since then, I have never ever said "I'm pro-life but I'm pro-choice" again, because I realized you can't be both. You can't say "I wouldn't make that decision but I'm not going to judge the woman that does."

Jesus would've never said that - why should we.
 
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vle045

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Nope, still a cop-out.

That's like saying "I'd never murder anyone, but it's that person's decision if they want to go out and murder someone." or

"I'd never steal from someone, but I'm not going to judge someone who does."

There is never a good reason for an abortion. NEVER. I'm adopted, I've given up a child for adoption and I've been faced with making the decision of not aborting versus losing my life. Hmmm...I'm still here, so apparently not abortion didn't kill me.

When we listen to the kind of logic that is posted above, we put our lives in someone else's hands other than God's. We put our trust in someone else (namely ourselves) rather than God. Being told that if I didn't have an abortion I would die was probably the hardest thing I have ever heard. And yes, in my sinful nature, I thought about what it would like to have an abortion. And in that moment I knew that I had let Satan win a round. And I felt HORRIBLE. I prayed and I prayed and I prayed, and what I got was this:

Romans 8:31-39
What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all-how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I knew in that moment that I had to put my life in GOD'S hands, not mine. And I knew that abortion was not the answer. Even had I died, I was in God's hands.

And ever since then, I have never ever said "I'm pro-life but I'm pro-choice" again, because I realized you can't be both. You can't say "I wouldn't make that decision but I'm not going to judge the woman that does."

Jesus would've never said that - why should we.
Please do not misunderstand me... as you have already misunderstood.

I am not saying whether it is right or wrong. And personal stories are just that... personal. You made your decision based on what was right for you, within your personal life, faith, beliefs, etc. There is nothing wrong with that.

I just wouldn't call someone less Christian for not being pro-life.
 
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DaSeminarian

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I remember right after 7-7-7 I was gonna ask you how it felt to be a part of the ecumenical team...and then I realized it wasn't really a statement on anything, it was just called ecumenical because it was all the congregations.

And yeah, I hope we don't go back to that slogan, either.

I don't think we'll ever be united in politics, either. I know of some very "staunch" Lutherans who are pro-choice. I can't ever unite with them politically until they're not pro-choice anymore - and that won't happen anytime soon...


I have a hard enough time uniting with those who think Santa Claus is a bad idea.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I have a hard enough time uniting with those who think Santa Claus is a bad idea.

^_^ A month ago I got involved in a thread about Santa Claus that was waaaaay over the top. I was told that my husband and I lacked discernment - oh wait, that was the halloween thread. No, in the Santa Claus thread I was told that I was a liar for letting my children believe in Santa, I was told that I was doing my children no favors by letting them think anything good of SATAN (the anagram of Santa).

So I totally hear what you're saying.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Please do not misunderstand me... as you have already misunderstood.

I am not saying whether it is right or wrong. And personal stories are just that... personal. You made your decision based on what was right for you, within your personal life, faith, beliefs, etc. There is nothing wrong with that.

I just wouldn't call someone less Christian for not being pro-life.

First of all, it would be very hard to misunderstand this last sentence. You wouldn't call someone less Christian for not being pro-life. I'd call someone totally NOT Christian for not being pro-life.

Abortion is wrong. There is no gray area in the matter. God's word tells us this, not personal experiences.

I choose to trust in God rather than myself.

And, I've derailed this thread quite a bit already.
 
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