What is Science?

lucaspa said:

You seem to keep ignoring that accuracy as history does not equate to accuracy about theology. Let me put this to you again: Archaeology has shown that the Iliad contains a lot of accurate history.

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To compare the Bible with the Iliad or odyssey is absurd. It is well established that there is no comparison between the Bible and any other book that has ever been written when it comes to accuracy and truthfulness. No one questioned that until revisionism came along as a part of the apostasy and the times we are living in. Your presenting an argument for people that are trying to avoid the truth, not seek after the truth.

lucaspa said:

Nice red herring. I did not ask about how psychologists deal with them. How do YOU deal with it.

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Is psychology science or not? My brother has a PHd in psy, if we were to tell him that psychology is a red herring and not real science, he may take issue with that. Even I was under the impression that Fraud and Jung were medical doctors. Do you take issue with psychiatrists also?

Joshua, you can't make a claim like you did

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Of course I can because you can not show otherwise. As long as you can not falsify the claim then the claim stands. If you want to join the ranks of revisionists then your ignoring 95% of the evidence so you can attempt to pick at 5% of the evidence. I am not sure how you can ignore an overwhelming abundance of evidence to pick at things that have little or no substance.

The problem you made for yourself is that you are tying the archaeological truths to the theological truths

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Not at all, that is just one example of many. There are many many areas where the Bible can be shown to be very accurate and true. Science is suppose to be able to sort through this to tell us what has been proven and what has not been proven. It really makes me wonder about science when they fight against the truth the way they so often do.

You don't think the Biblical characters and Yahweh are archetypes, do you?

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My training and study is in the Bible and in the Bible we study shadows and types. Also I have read some allegories, which I find to be very interesting. I am not an expert in psychology and dealing with archetypes. I wish I was because people like Walt Disney and Steven Spielberg make a lot of money off of dealing in that. So IF science can not disregard archetypes then all the more allegories and the shadow and types we find in the Bible has great value for our understanding the human mind and the human condition.

Science likes to use the term Trojan horse out of Homer's book. The historical accuracy of the actual Trojan house does not matter to the concept and the use of the word in medicine. In Greek Mythology the Siren's sing their song and the sailors end up ship wrecked as they were lured into dangerous waters lured by the song. It does not matter if the Sirens were real or not, the lesson is still very valid that we have to be careful not to allow ourselves to become shipwrecked. We can not allow the beautiful song to lure us into dangerous waters.

And the Iliad is still around. Do you think the value of the Iliad is the same as the value of the Bible?

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The Iliad and the Odyssey has some value today. Not nearly as much value as the Bible because there is so much of an abundance in the Bible.

A greater Hope said:

Here's a bit on confusion on your behalf as well lucaspa,
Jesus is the bible in the context of him actually being "The Word of God"
John 1-1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word is God.

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In verse five we are told: "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." So they really are not able to understand how Jesus was there in the beginning. They do not comprehend it.

lucaspa said:

John Calvin, back in the 16th century, was quite willing to accept knowledge of Creation from anybody -- believer and unbeliever alike. He considered it "ingratitude" to disregard science simply because the discoveries came from unbelievers.

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I am very grateful for the work science does to gather the evidence that God provides for us to examine. I just am not so sure of their understanding of the evidence that God provides for us. I believe a future generation of science during the 1,000 year reign of Christ, will do a much better job of explaining the evidence we find in Creation.

lucaspa said:

I know, science is the most reliable knowledge we have. Therefore it becomes tempting for Joshua and others to try to get science to confirm Christianity and God's existence. OTOH, some atheists want science to confirm that God does not exist. In both cases this is a misuse and misunderstanding of science.

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It is not a question about confirming the Bible so much as nothing in science can falsify the Bible. Our young people can study science and religion and there is no conflict between them. I believe science is a good tool to confirm our understanding of the Bible. Often science has shown various interpretations to be less than accurate. Sometimes people love to hang onto their traditions. Jesus teaches us to be careful of this when He talks about: ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.""

A greater Hope said:

Ok true but, for me you ran of track with that scripture quote,I don't understand the reason you quoted it or at least how your applying this to my quote earlier?

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I realize people like partial scripture quotes. I like to read the whole passage in context. That helps us to understand more fully what is going on and not just receive a part of it.

SkyWriting said:

I do really appreciate your googling skills....honestly.
But that is a low number, suggesting "science is a way of knowing" is not a valid phrase.
"Testing ideas" gave you much better results.

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Google "science is a way of knowing" and we get 213,000,000 results mostly from Universities. There is a book from the Harvard press: "Science as a way of knowing". Google that and we get another 210,000,000 results. Sort of makes you wonder how far atheism is willing to go to deny science. Or in the least wonder how much science does not agree with itself.

Loudmouth said:

That's sort of my point. When the Bible is contradicted by the scientific evidence a miracle is invoked to make the evidence go away. This is why the claims of science supporting the Bible are hollow.

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Penicillin was considered a medical miracle because of the very high cure rate. Slightly less then 90% at first but slightly more then 90% now. When the radio first came out that really amazed a lot of people that a voice was coming out of a box. People started to put their faith in Science. Only there is still to this day a LOT that science can not do. There is also still a lot of harm that science does. So we need to be very careful and not allow ourselves to be lured into a false sense of security. With God that is not a problem. Those who put their trust in Him can know beyond any doubt that He will take good care of them, His promise to us is that HE will not disappoint. Science CAN not and DOES not make that promise.

SkyWriting said:

Only 213,000.
That is a low number for results.
"God is a dog" gets more hits.

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Yet lots of people on here says it is not true. I guess science contradicts itself.