What is science?

[USAF]

Lucaspa





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If the clone is created by a married couple, then it's OK?

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oh for God sakes Lucaspa.

 

[GARY SCHULZ]

[/font]

Can you please post your evidence from "Gods word"? In context, please.

I take it from this argument that humans derived from in vitro fertilization don't have souls, either. After all, they didn't result from sexual intercourse.

Only God can know if they have souls or not, but in vitro fertilization is against Gods order of things and so therefore wrong.




If the clone is created by a married couple, then it's OK?

Only if done within a christian marriage through the normal method





Why then, didn't you cite the scripture? Again, in context please. I want the verses before and after. Not just a single verse taken out of context.

You should read the bible from cover to cover, pray for Gods guidence beforehand, and with His grace all will become clear.



Can you quote God on this? God chose to regard the Hebrews as His Chosen People. God chooses to forgive our sins. God chooses to accept us for eternal life. Why would God choose to punish these people simply because they came as clones instead of sexual intercourse. It sounds like you are trying to be God.

I think not.

 

[GARY SCHULZ]

No, a theory can be true or false. For instance, the theory that the earth is flat is definitely false, isn't it? So is the theory (advanced about 1900) that proteins are the hereditary material.

OTOH, theories can be true. That is, accurately describe how that part of the physical universe works. What you are thinking is that, by deductive logic, we are unable to definitively "prove" they are true. But objectively, there must be true theories for each part of the physical universe.

Now I know why I quit all of this stuff.
Life is so much simpler now!

 

[Arikay]

hmm... ...nah too easy.

Think not to what comment, as he made a couple different ones.

 

[GARY SCHULZ]

True. But science is a process of refinement. We may never get it 'perfect', but we certainly are much closer to the truth about the universe today than we ever were in the past, correct?

Maybe, maybe not. I guess one day man will find out.


Do you think the study of biblical theology is any different? If the truths in the Bible are plain, why can't people seem to agree about them throughout history?

I think this is because a lot of what the bible has to say challenges people and their beliefs and lifestyles etc. It demands that to live a godly life they must leave their comfort zones.


What's wrong with seeking truth in creation? Like the Bible, was it not God who made it? There are two ways to be fallible Gary: one is in our interpretations of nature. The second is in our interpretations of scripture. All you are doing is ignoring God's creation, and assuming your interpretations of the scripture are perfect. Thankfully, the truth is that your interpretations of scripture are fallible, like anyone else's. Perhaps its time you admit this to yourself.

Fair comment. I dont think that I am ignoring Gods creation though, I just disagree with some scientific standpoints as to how it was created in the first place. In my days of study I used to believe that all around us in the universe could in actual fact 'just happen'. Now i believe the same to be true, but that God made it happen. My interpretation of scripture may at times be fallible, i cant deny that, and i pray that God will help me when I get it wrong, but concerning creation my interpretation is as far as i know correct, but people will always disagree.

 

[pureone]

Lucaspa





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If the clone is created by a married couple, then it's OK?

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oh for God sakes Lucaspa.

That is exactly why he is doing this.


Complain when you are confronted in the discussion game. Don't actually answer...

 

[USAF]

pureone


at what point is a clone a creation of God?

 

[pureone]

Identical twins are clones. Same genetic material in each organism. So if you beleive in creation by any means, then clones are made by God. Clones made in the lab are steps along a route intended to give us genetically identical replacement organs for transplants to minimize rejection, not to make people for some sci-fi reason.
If the genetic material was made by God, then when are clones not from god?

 

[Mike Flynn]

If the genetic material was made by God, then when are clones not from god?

Exactly.

And in addition, the Bible says that living things are only animate because God's 'breath' makes them that way. Iow, a clone is God's creation, and should be treated as such.

 

[Mike Flynn]

Lucaspa: Can you please post your evidence from "Gods word"? In context, please.

I take it from this argument that humans derived from in vitro fertilization don't have souls, either. After all, they didn't result from sexual intercourse.

Gary: Only God can know if they have souls or not, but in vitro fertilization is against Gods order of things and so therefore wrong.

Is it just me, or have you sidestepped the question? Can you post the scriptures that make this assertion?

Only if done within a christian marriage through the normal method

Scripture reference? I don't understand why you don't want to demonstrate the validity of your arguments with a reference from God's Word. It is because there are no references and thus no validity to those arguments? If you just want to dodge the questions, then why woulnd't anyone assume as much?

You should read the bible from cover to cover, pray for Gods guidence beforehand, and with His grace all will become clear.

Good advice. Has it been made clear to you that your interpretations are not infallible when you read those scriptures Gary? If it hasn't, then you should read them again.

 

[Mike Flynn]

My interpretation of scripture may at times be fallible, i cant deny that, and i pray that God will help me when I get it wrong,

An honest answer. I need to remind myself of the same when I interpret data in science as well as scriptures. We should seek guidance in all that we do.

but concerning creation my interpretation is as far as i know correct, but people will always disagree.

The point is to admit that interpretations are not infallible. And when we say they are then we make them false idols in a way. I believe that God can speak more to us about creation when we look to creation itself. Just as God can speak more to us about salvation when we look to the Bible. Just as we can learn more about a house by studying the house...but we can learn more about the man who built it by reading his books.

We need to be careful about twisting the data in creation to fit our conceptions about salvation, just as we need to be careful about doing the reverse, don't you think?

 

[USAF]

Pureone



Identical twins are the same person with the same mind is what your saying? naaaa Pureone, I think Identical twins are just as it says, “Identical” they are born, they are of God, they have a soul. If you start creating them in a test tube, its an illegitimate ******* child. It may have a father, or I should say, It has the chromosomes from one, but it was not conceived, it was manufactured in a test tube, and stuck back in the mother or any mother for baking (so to say)



You can’t play God, no matter what loop hole you try to conceive

 

[pureone]

Pureone



Identical twins are the same person with the same mind is what your saying? naaaa Pureone, I think Identical twins are just as it says, “Identical” they are born, they are of God, they have a soul.

no that is what you are saying. I said they have the identical DNA making them clones. You, oh great understander of the complexity of DNA should know this.

If you start creating them in a test tube, its an illegitimate ******* child. It may have a father, or I should say, It has the chromosomes from one, but it was not conceived, it was manufactured in a test tube, and stuck back in the mother or any mother for baking (so to say)

You can’t play God, no matter what loop hole you try to conceive

and if the DNA is identical, it still is a clone, by any means. So artificial insemination and allowing surrogate mothers is wrong by your standards?

 

[pureone]

And again, if the gentic material came from God creating it with everything, the it still belongs to God.
we can see what you think by what you write, doesn't mean you are right.

 

[Data]

If you start creating them in a test tube, its an illegitimate ******* child. It may have a father, or I should say, It has the chromosomes from one, but it was not conceived, it was manufactured in a test tube, and stuck back in the mother or any mother for baking (so to say)

It's not 'manufactured'. You DO realise the only thing they do is mix the sperm and the egg. Right? The exact same thing that happens in the womb?

 

[pureone]

It's not 'manufactured'. You DO realise the only thing they do is mix the sperm and the egg. Right? The exact same thing that happens in the womb?

Great, now you have to explain the birds and the bees...

 

[Data]

Great, now you have to explain the birds and the bees...

When a man and a woman really love each other...