What is science?

[USAF]

Jet Black


Then suspect. Are you guys desperately that far in search of a debate? If somebody tells you they do not believe in evolution, you must hound that person until they give you a debate? hat’s all your looking for, is a debate. You want me to post things, so you can turn around and counter post. Opinions are not acceptable to you. Isn't that right?

 

[Jet Black]

what is it going to change huh? you think you will change my mind? Do you think I will change your mind? Are you going to drop evolution?

no, for two reasons: 1) you don't give us evidence 2) you ignore our evidence.

ohhhh don’t give me that, they formed their own beliefs around what they were taught and fed. If you presented any contradiction, they will dispute it and hold onto evolution. You can’t change peoples minds.

evidence dude, evidence.

 

[USAF]

Why do you guys wish for a debate so badly? Your wanting me to set here and type of pages of information, and it wont do a bit of difference, its not going to change your mind. Sure you can say “ohh if we see evidence we will change our minds” you will not, your still going to believe, because the faith of mans evolution is what keeps it alive

 

[Jet Black]

Jet Black


Then suspect.

do you or don't you?
[QUOTE]
If somebody tells you they do not believe in evolution, you must hound that person until they give you a debate?
[/QUOTE]
believing is one thing, wilful ignorance is another.

hat’s all your looking for, is a debate. You want me to post things, so you can turn around and counter post. Opinions are not acceptable to you. Isn't that right?

facts are what counts, you don't have any.

 

[PhantomLlama]

PhantomLlama





*

Partially correct. We do get annoyed with you because your posts are nothing but unsupported assertions. Other people here, even some creationists, have at least the decency to back up what they say when asked to.

*



what is it going to change huh? you think you will change my mind? Do you think I will change your mind? Are you going to drop evolution?

I will drop evolution if presented with good evidence to the contrary. You have presented none. I eagerly await hearing some, it would be very interesting.

*

I cannot think of a single evolutionist here who would no change his mind if presented with good evidence. The fact that you cannot provide it is your problem, not ours.

*



ohhhh don’t give me that, they formed their own beliefs around what they were taught and fed. If you presented any contradiction, they will dispute it and hold onto evolution. You can’t change peoples minds.

We have changed minds on this forum before. Look at MySaviour. I will change my mind if presented with good reason to. I once was a literal creationist, now I accept evolution and the big bang. Unfortunately I had not been told evolution was compatible with God, so I lost my christianity at that point as well. See the damage literalism and creationism can do?

 

[Jet Black]

Why do you guys wish for a debate so badly? Your wanting me to set here and type of pages of information, and it wont do a bit of difference, its not going to change your mind. Sure you can say “ohh if we see evidence we will change our minds” you will not, your still going to believe, because the faith of mans evolution is what keeps it alive

look dude, why do you come here. you know what the form of a science vs evolution forum is going to be like, don't expect us to bend over and just take everything you have to say. Since you have got here, all we have heard from you is vacuous comment and non answers. you're going on my ignore list now, goodbye.

 

[PhantomLlama]

I would like a discussion. (not a debate, that is slightly different and lucaspa gets annoyed if people call one the other) I want a discussion because talking to other people who think differently broadens and sharpens the mind. I have learnt much since coming here, and changed the way I think about some things.

 

[USAF]

Jet Black



Ohhhhh You know exactly what I am saying Jet Black, stop analyzing my posts





------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





PhantomLlama





*

We have changed minds on this forum before. Look at MySaviour. I will change my mind if presented with good reason to. I once was a literal creationist, now I accept evolution and the big bang. Unfortunately I had not been told evolution was compatible with God, so I lost my christianity at that point as well. See the damage literalism and creationism can do?

*



that’s why I state do not challenge faith. You start believing in mans fabrication, then faith exists no more and religion is removed in place of fallacy

 

[USAF]

Jet Black





You already put me on your ignore list weeks ago

 

[Data]

look dude, why do you come here. you know what the form of a science vs evolution forum is going to be like, don't expect us to bend over and just take everything you have to say. Since you have got here, all we have heard from you is vacuous comment and non answers. you're going on my ignore list now, goodbye.

Yea, me too, the rampant idiocy simply astounds me.

Bye bye USAF.

 

[PhantomLlama]

that’s why I state do not challenge faith.

That's rich coming from you. Goodbye.

 

[lucaspa]

Jet Black





*

well call it having an education.

*



and it’s the ignorance of that education that makes you believe in a false theory, for which you may never understand why I state this




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LorentzHA



Actually even though Lucaspa believes in a false theory, I still like to talk to him, because he doesn’t’ seam as ignorant as you guys do.

LOL! When you can post data that shows the theory is false, I'll accept it as false. After all, I accept creationism and ID as false theories, don't I?

USAF, the world "believe" is not associated with scientific theories. The word you want is "accept". I accept evolution as (provisionally) true precisely because of my education, which consists of examining the data.

You, OTOH, are probably using the word "believe" correctly. You believe evolution is false only as a matter of faith while maintaining ignorance of the data. If you learned something, you would have to change your mind.

 

[pureone]

Jet Black





You already put me on your ignore list weeks ago

No, that was me. but i took you off ignore because I delight in your blather.

 

[lucaspa]

Lucaspa




Man's universe also includes spirituality. Even atheists have a spirituality. Humans do study the spiritual. Those are the domains of theology and philosophy.





whose spirituality? Mans Spirituality or Gods? When I took philosophy, it seamed like a bunch of garbage man made up it describe his physical universe.

Could be either human ideas on spirituality or God's ideas on it. Depends on the spirituality and philosophy you are talking about. Altho philosophy was originally not distinct from science, it has been distinct for about 300 years.

Most of philosophy that I have read is not interested in describing the physical universe, but rather the non-physical universe of ideas and ultimate reality. For instance, political philosophy discusses ideas about government and society. The philosophy of science discusses how and why science works.

Atheists believe the material is all there is. In an attempt to justify that belief, some atheists attempt to redefine science like you are: the only form of knowing available to humans. Since science doesn't show the existence of deity, militant atheists also attempt to redefine science to be logical positivism.

in other words they are left to believe in such stupidity as Evolution?

Nope. Hume was an atheist long before evolution was discovered. What evolution did for atheism was give atheists an answer to the Argument from Design. The only contribution of evolution to the atheism vs theism debate was to remove a false "proof" of the existence of deity. IOW, a human idea to "prove" God was shown to be wrong.

I've asked this before: have you used genetic algorithms in your work? If so, you can hardly call evolution "stupidity".

BTW, if evolution is so stupid, why do drug companies have to keep coming up with new antibiotics? Why won't penicillin always work?

well now that you understand what I am saying…. net step is to figure out what mean by faith.

Wouldn't it be simpler to have you tell us? In the meantime, we have a means for clear communication. It's called a dictionary. Until you indicate otherwise, I will go with what humans have agreed the definition of "faith" is.

So once again you substitute yourself for God. How do you know God doesn't recognize a clone as a creature of God.

*



Substitute myself as God? Your going to make a clone, and you think that is a creation of God? Do you?

Want to answer my question? How do you speak for God that a clone is not a creature of God?

Notice I said "creature of God" not "creation of God". You subtly changed terms.

I have no idea what God you guys worship,

The God of the Bible. You know, that God that viewed the Hebrews as His Chosen People simply because He chose to?

but I am disgusted at the fact that man is so manipulated, that he can substitute mans science in place of God, and proclaim it to be how God works his creations

Well, let's see. Your parents had sex and created you. They may even have used man's science to figure out when your mother's fertile period was to ensure conception. By your logic, since you were 'created' by your parents and not directly manufactured by God, you can't be a "creature of God". It's plain that you don't worship the God of the Bible. We're still trying to figure out what god you do worship.

, and then as a result, he will deny Gods Creations (such as Adam, Eden) because now his belief that he took mans science to substitute Religion with, cannot survive with the written word intact, so as a result, the faith is altered to accept a a false theory of man because that’s how he was taught in school? I was taught that in College as well, but I wasn’t stupid enough to buy into it.

1. How does making a clone have anything to do with denying "God's Creation"? You are the one trying to be god and say a clone doesn't have a soul. God chooses to give souls. So how can you say God would not choose to give a soul to a clone?

2. The written word is intact. A literal interpretation of that word is not intact. But since the literal interpretation was of man and not God, it's no big loss, is it?

3. We accept a theory because of the evidence in God's Creation. That you chose to reject God is your problem.

Thank you for backing my point so well. You "know" by the same criteria Jet Black uses. Something you have seen or, in this case, you trust the author of the story of Elisha to report the story accurately.

oh here we ago again, so what have you altered now? So tell me, how does this story go according to the new religious beliefs? Was Elisha more evolved than all of us?



Naa, I believe Elisha was filled with the Holy Ghost. HE was a Servant of God, not a fabrication of your false theory

1. The story has nothing to do with evolution. Elisha got personal evidence that was convincing to him. You weren't there and didn't see the evidence. Instead, you believe the story is accurate. Atheists doubt the story is accurate or believe that it is not accurate.

This isn't about evolution. It's about the nature of evidence.

2. See? "I believe Elisha was filled with the Holy Ghost." You believe the story was accurate. Where in evolutionary theory is Elisha mentioned?

USAF, you make up a lot of falsehoods about evolution. Of course, I think most of that is simply to avoid admitting you were wrong.

 

[lucaspa]

You challenge the faith, and its sad to witness

If this was addressed to me, it's wide of the mark. I'm defending Christianity against the false idol worship you espouse. As LorenztHA has asked: how many recruits for atheism have you gotten today?

 

[pureone]

Jet Black



Ohhhhh You know exactly what I am saying Jet Black, stop analyzing my posts

It is easy to recognize nothing when one sees it.

 

[lucaspa]

LorentzHA





Ohh you don’t know 1 thing about me.

We know plenty about you. Mostly psychological, because you can't help but expose parts of your personality in your posts.

You guys are upset because I state things and wont provide you with “”evidence””

No. We are upset at you because you make false claims. It is the same upset we would show anyone violating the 9th Commandment.

I ask you how will it change your minds, you know it wont change your mind, and you know what you say wont change my mind. Yu just can’t live with that I suppose

This won't fly. Remember, creationism was the scientific theory in the period 1700-1859. If scientists can change their mind and decide it is false, then they can change their mind again and decide evolution is false. You can't have it both ways.

You can "suppose" whatever you want. You just can't pass it off as "science" or try to teach it in a science classroom. And if you make your suppositions public then they are going to be questioned.

 

[lucaspa]

If somebody tells you they do not believe in evolution, you must hound that person until they give you a debate?

You went far beyond that. You claimed evolution is a false theory. It's not. You committed false witness. We are supposed to hound you for that.

hat’s all your looking for, is a debate. You want me to post things, so you can turn around and counter post.

Opinions are not acceptable to you. Isn't that right?

Opinions are quite acceptable. We accept Arikay's opinion that there is no deity and Mike Flynn's opinion that there is one. Both are stated as opinions.

However, your claims have not been opinions. You have stated as fact that evolution is false. You have stated as fact that evolution is a belief. Both of those are wrong. We would be remiss in not pointing that out to you. You don't accept the correction and get angry instead. Too bad for you.

 

[lucaspa]

because the faith of mans evolution is what keeps it alive

It's not faith, USAF. It's data that keeps any scientific theory alive. Evolution is not a faith. Evolution is not atheism.

If you want to argue against atheism, then trot over to Apologetics and do so. I might even help you refine your arguments. But evolution isn't atheism and isn't a faith.

There are evolutionists who are theists (most Christians), evolutionists who are agnostic, and evolutionists who are atheists. Evolution has nothing to do with your faith about the existence or non-existence of deity.

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.

 

[PhantomLlama]

I might even help you refine your arguments.

And when that happens, God help us atheists.