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What is Satans purpose in his struggle with God?

reddogs

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Satan wants to "be like the Most High." He desires worship. By substituting another day for God's true worship day, he has hoped to get worship and allegiance through deception. Jesus was very clear on this:
10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'[d]" Matthew 4:10

But he also wants to deny Christ divinity and step into his place with man. Lets start at the begining, as I found these gems in a lesson:

"..Lucifer's claims began in the heart—that is, in the mind. God created the mind as the seat of all emotions, decisions, and actions. As is the mind, so is the life. "Your word I have hidden in my heart," says the psalmist, "that I might not sin against You" (Ps. 119:11, NKJV). A mind filled with God's thoughts and His will serves as a shield against sin. But Lucifer filled his mind with rebellious, prideful thoughts:
" ' "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" ' "(Isa. 14:13, NKJV). Lucifer's ultimate presumption was that he could seize the sovereignty that Christ had above all other created thrones. His presumption was not only false but in direct revolt against the basic law of the created order: Only the Creator can be sovereign.
" ' "I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north" ' " (vs. 13, NKJV). Psalm 48:2 describes Mount Zion as being "on the sides of the north." Lucifer's ambition was to sit on the mount of the congregation—an ambition that once fulfilled would no doubt win the angels' allegiance and their worship. But worship is the prerogative of God and Him alone (see 1 Chron. 16:29; Ps. 96:9; Rev. 14:7). Upon what other presumption did Lucifer dare to act?
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
Isa. 14:14

What is wrong with this particular presumption of Lucifer's? After all, doesn't the Bible itself tell us we should seek to be like God, to love like Him, to serve like Him, to forgive like Him, to hate sin like Him, to be a source of hope like Him? (Gal. 5:22-26; Col. 3:12-14). The problem, instead, is what it was about God that Lucifer wanted for himself. Lucifer desired God's power, position, authority, and glory; not His love, His benevolence, His mercy.
Lucifer's rebellion did not begin as a full-blown revolt; it rarely does, even in us. It starts small, unperceived, a little doubt here, a little hatred there, a little greed or jealousy somewhere else. Soon it all adds up into something that we never imagined at first. Unless we guard our minds with God's Word and commit ourselves daily to Him, revolt will not be far away...."

Now Lucifer wants to deny that Jesus really was God so he can make assert himself as god to mankind, many claim the belief that Jesus did not claim to be God while on earth, the Bible clearly teaches that He did. In John 8:58 Jesus says of Himself, "...Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM." The term I AM, is of course one that God has assumed as His name, and was recognized by the Jews as a title of deity (see Ex. 3:14; cf. Isa. 44:6; 47:8). Also, the high priest's reaction to Jesus' use of the title, in the Gospel of Mark, suggests that he considered Jesus' utterance of it as being a blasphemous claim to deity (Mark 14:61-63). Jesus makes it perfectly clear in John 8 that He is most certainly God (cf. John 3:13; 5:18; 10:33; 17:5). Noted American theologian A.A. Hodge, speaks truly on this matter of the Person of Christ:

"Jesus of Nazareth was very God, possessing the divine nature and all its essential attributes. He is also true man, His human nature derived by generation from the stock of Adam. These natures continued united in His Person, yet ever remain true divinity and true humanity, unmixed and as to essence unchanged. So that Christ possesses at once in the unity of His Person two spirits with all their essential attributes, a human consciousness, mind, heart and will.... Yet it does not become us to attempt to explain the manner in which the two spirits mutually affect each other, or how far they meet in one consciousness, nor how the two wills cooperate in one activity, in the union of one person. Nevertheless, they constitute as thus united one single Person, and the attributes of both natures belong to the one Person."8

The Scripture most widely used to support the view that Christ emptied Himself of His divinity is Philippians 2:7: "But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." The Revised Version has it, 'But emptied Himself, taking the form...' The Greek here means literally to empty. The question we have before us is: In what manner did Jesus empty Himself? Some contend that the kenosis (an emptying), was merely a concealment, a veiling of His divine attributes, not unlike the sun as when veiled by clouds still gives its light but the full radiance is concealed. John 1 shows clearly that Jesus, the second Person of the Godhead, was made flesh, maintaining His divinity and attributes. The Unger's Bible Dictionary informs us that, "The ancient Church, with but few exceptions, taught that the Son did not retain the divine glory for Himself, for His own advantage, while yet He did not cease even in the flesh to be what He eternally was." Luke 2:49, "How is it that ye sought Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?" indicates that even as a Child, Jesus was conscious of His divinity, as well as during the years of His ministry (John 8:58; 10:30; 14:9-11; 17:25).

Philippians 2:6 speaks of Jesus, being in the form of God... The word "form" (morph), is best defined by Gifford in his book The Incarnation, "morph is...properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual, and retained as long as the individual itself exists...Thus in the passage before us morph Theou is the Divine nature actually and inseparably subsisting in the Person of Christ."

Perhaps the strongest verse which attests to Christ's divinity is Colossians 2:9: "For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." This verse plainly states that the fullness of the Godhead ie., divinity or divine essence, became incarnate and indwelt the body of Jesus Christ. It does not mean that only the will of God dwelt in Him, nor even of the divine knowledge alone, but that the whole deity had become incarnate and dwelt in human form. Jesus was not just a man who had God dwelling in Him, He was wholly God and wholly man. Hebrews 13:8, an oft used verse by both Faith movement teachers and followers alike, is proof that Jesus was wholly divine, and yet in human form during His ministry on earth, for He is forever unchangeable. According to Philippians 2:6-8, Jesus came to earth in the form of God, and in the form of a servant. "The eternal, infinite form of God took upon Himself flesh" (John 1:1, 14).....Atonement Where? by Moreno Dal Bell"

But Satan wants to be like God even to the end of time, he wants to be worshipped and thus uses substitutes like the pagan worship of the sun and its day. This is why Sunday will assume such a critical importance as we come to the end of days as it will be made a clear choice by the evil one himself so that everyone will have to choose between worshiping the evil one or God:

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. (Rev. 1:13-15). The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" {LDE 163.2}

The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed.--GC 624 (1911). {LDE 163.3}


It is all begining to become clear as to the evil one's purpose in the great controversy with God....
 

Jimlarmore

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If there is no struggle how come Paul says we struggle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers? If there is no struggle how come in Jude the Bible says that the devil contended with the archangel over the body of Moses? If there is no struggle how come the Bible says there was a war in heaven between the devil and michael the archangel? If there is no struggle how come the Bible says God would put enmity between the devil and woman and between his seed and her seed? BTW, her seed isthe church and symbolically Christ. I could go on and on.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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freeindeed2

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If there is no struggle how come Paul says we struggle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers? If there is no struggle how come in Jude the Bible says that the devil contended with the archangel over the body of Moses? If there is no struggle how come the Bible says there was a war in heaven between the devil and michael the archangel? If there is no struggle how come the Bible says God would put enmity between the devil and woman and between his seed and her seed? BTW, her seed isthe church and symbolically Christ. I could go on and on.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
Do you believe that God is 'struggling' against the Devil?
 
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Jimlarmore

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Do you believe that God is 'struggling' against the Devil?

If you don't believe there has been spiritual warfare going on here on this planet for quite some time then you are not grasping reality. I think there has been a struggle between God and Satan since sin was found in his heart. Satan has coveted the very throne of God and fought a war against God in heaven before the world was created. Satan has been about stealing, killing and destroying what God loves Luke 32:21, John 10:10. Even though all life is possible because of God and His power He has allowed this great experiment in sin to play itself out for the entire universe to see.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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freeindeed2

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If you don't believe there has been spiritual warfare going on here on this planet for quite some time then you are not grasping reality. I think there has been a struggle between God and Satan since sin was found in his heart. Satan has coveted the very throne of God and fought a war against God in heaven before the world was created. Satan has been about stealing, killing and destroying what God loves Luke 32:21, John 10:10. Even though all life is possible because of God and His power He has allowed this great experiment in sin to play itself out for the entire universe to see.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
So that would be a 'yes' that God is 'struggling' against the Devil then?
 
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Jon0388g

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So that would be a 'yes' that God is 'struggling' against the Devil then?

Answer his question!!!

The Bible says there was a war in heaven. The Bible says the devil contended with Michael over the body of Moses. The Bible says we struggle against demonic forces.

Where is your Scriptural response?




Also, I'm not suprised you feel that God does not have to answer to anyone. It comes across to me that you view God as a dictator, unloving, controlling person.

Jon
 
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reddogs

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No freeindeed2,

The question is not the struggle or controversy, it is "What is Satan's purpose", and the answer is plain:
"Satan wants to be like God "
" He desires worship"
"he has hoped to get worship and allegiance through deception."
"I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God"
" he could seize the sovereignty that Christ had above all other created thrones"
"Lucifer's ambition was to sit on the mount of the congregation—an ambition that once fulfilled would no doubt win the angels' allegiance and their worship"
"Lucifer wants to deny that Jesus really was God so he can make assert himself as god to mankind"

By making another counterfeit religion which snares man with a false spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. A system of worship contrary to God’s prescribed plan of salvation. A system of worship where access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. A system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. A system of worship which substitutes another day for God's true worship day and Babylon is its name, and it is here with us today and is calling it's daughters to come back to her but like the ancient Babylon, its destruction is near.........
  1. Zechariah 2:7
    Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
    Zechariah 2:6-8 (in Context) Zechariah 2 (Whole Chapter)
1The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

2Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.
3For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast.
4In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.
5They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
6My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
7All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
8Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.
9For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain.
10And Chaldea shall be a spoil: all that spoil her shall be satisfied, saith the LORD.
11Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls;
12Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
13Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.
14Put yourselves in array against Babylon round about: all ye that bend the bow, shoot at her, spare no arrows: for she hath sinned against the LORD.
15Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the LORD: take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her.
16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
17Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
18Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.
19And I will bring Israel again to his habitation, and he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan, and his soul shall be satisfied upon mount Ephraim and Gilead.
20In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
21Go up against the land of Merathaim, even against it, and against the inhabitants of Pekod: waste and utterly destroy after them, saith the LORD, and do according to all that I have commanded thee.
22A sound of battle is in the land, and of great destruction.
23How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
24I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.
25The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans.
26Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left.
27Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation.
28The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple.
29Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
30Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD.
31Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee.
32And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him.
33Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go.
34Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.
35A sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men.
36A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed.
37A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people that are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed.
38A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols.
39Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation.
40As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.
41Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
42They shall hold the bow and the lance: they are cruel, and will not shew mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they shall ride upon horses, every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon.
43The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail.
44Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong: but I will make them suddenly run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?
45Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Babylon; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them. 46At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.
Jeremiah 50:1-46
 
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reddogs

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Babylon is described in Revelation 17:5 as the “mother of harlots” (apostate religious systems or churches), “Mystery” and the “abominations of the earth”. Obviously if God’s people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite of this symbol or that system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations. The harlot daughters of Babylon must represent those churches that follow her false teachings and thus subject themselves to her rule, or even worse, officially accept Babylon's leadership as authoritative.
Does it claim to be the mother of all the churches? (“SACROS LATERAN ECCLES OMNIVM VRBIS ET ORBIS ECCLESIARVM MATER ET CAPVT”)

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written: Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Revelation 17: 4,5

According to Revelation 17, the cup is full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication, which represent apostate doctrine and dogma, which she has made all the nations drink. These unbiblical doctrines where exposed by the reformers during the reformation, but sadly, the protestant churches are today willing to set aside their doctrinal differences in order to achieve Christian unity. However, unity, which is achieved by sacrificing truth stands on a foundation of sand and will be swept away in times of tempest.
 
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reddogs

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In order to make himself "be like the Most High." and lure people to his worship which substitutes another day for God's true worship day, Satans purpose is to debunked a literal interpretation of the Creation according to Genesis. It accompluishes many of his purposes, including that it does away with Gods day of worship the seventh day Sabbath, it does away with God as the creator, and leaves out Jesus part in creation and being one with with God, and most important his role in leading man into sin.....

There was a time when Protestants believed that God created the earth in six literal days, but they have changed and adopted the theory of evolution for most of them. The majority of Protestant churches have rejected the flood and creation accounts as recorded in the first 11 chapters of the book of Genesis, calling them myths. When the truth of God’s holy Sabbath was brought to the Protestant world and its leaders, they rejected it and clung to the tradition of Sunday worship, a tradition brought in from ancient Babylon. And through the ages the churches of the Reformation kept rejecting the truth of God’s Sabbath. Nevertheless, in spite of the rejection of truth by these churches, God has a special invitation for His honest, sincere children in Babylon. God does not want these sincere and honest children to remain in this fallen state of Babylon and so He appeals to them in Revelation 18:4 “...Come out of her, my people, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.”
 
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reddogs

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The final confederacy of Babylon will consist of three components, namely the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. The three components of Babylon represent Satan’s counterfeit system of worship, which fool many into worshiping the evil one which is his purpose.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Revelation 16:13

So they will fool many with their "miracles and wonders" and they will do it so that everyone sees it, but they are spirits not from God. Ancient Babylon served as a type of the modern Babylon. Just as the warning to separate from typical Babylon, so the warning will be repeated at the end of time to anti-typical Babylon:

Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD’S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence. Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. Jeremiah 51:6,7
 
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reddogs

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Hills or high places in ancient times served as places of worship and sacrifices. The gods that were worshipped in these places were manifestations of the sun god who was androgenic in that he/she could manifest himself/herself in the male or the female form. Moreover, the system of worship was based on salvation by works, but included a saviour or counterfeit Messiah, and mediators of both sexes. One further reason why the end-time religious confederacy, is called ‘Babylon’ is because the Babylonian system of worship is enshrined in its mysteries, as it is also enshrined in Sun Worship

The Babylonian system of worship has essentially been maintained to this day. The ancient Chaldeans worshipped a pantheon of male and female gods representing the sun god. There were largely three aspects to this system of sun worship, representing the father, mother, and the son. These were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son, who was also worshipped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshipped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis representing the mother. Mother and child worship was the basis of the ancient religions, and these are still part of Babylon's system of religion.

The most prominent form of worship in Babylon was dedicated to Dagon, later known as Ichthys, or the fish. In Chaldean times, the head of the church was the representative of Dagon, he was considered to be infallible, and was addressed as ‘Your Holiness’. Nations subdued by Babylon had to kiss the ring and slipper of the Babylonian god-king. The same powers and the same titles are claimed to this day.

Satan has not stopped seeking the worship that rightly belongs to God alone. The Protestant churches who join themselves to Babylon by accepting its supremacy become part of Babylon and thus form a part of end-time Babylon, the final confederacy to challenge the authority of God and His law. The start of which we are seeing already...........
 
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freeindeed2

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No freeindeed2,

The question is not the struggle or controversy, it is "What is Satan's purpose", and the answer is plain:
"Satan wants to be like God "
" He desires worship"
"he has hoped to get worship and allegiance through deception."
"I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God"
" he could seize the sovereignty that Christ had above all other created thrones"
"Lucifer's ambition was to sit on the mount of the congregation—an ambition that once fulfilled would no doubt win the angels' allegiance and their worship"
"Lucifer wants to deny that Jesus really was God so he can make assert himself as god to mankind"

Where are you getting these quotes from?

reddogs said:
By making another counterfeit religion which snares man with a false spirit that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. A system of worship contrary to God’s prescribed plan of salvation. A system of worship where access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. A system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. A system of worship which substitutes another day for God's true worship day and Babylon is its name, and it is here with us today and is calling it's daughters to come back to her but like the ancient Babylon, its destruction is near.........
  1. Zechariah 2:7
    Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
    Zechariah 2:6-8 (in Context) Zechariah 2 (Whole Chapter)
This passage is about Israel being called out of exile after 70 years of captivity in Babylon. How do you draw all that you just proposed out of Zechariah 2 and apply it to us today?

1The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

2Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.
3For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast.
4In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.
5They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
6My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
7All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
8Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.
9For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain.
10And Chaldea shall be a spoil: all that spoil her shall be satisfied, saith the LORD.
11Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls;
12Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
13Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.
14Put yourselves in array against Babylon round about: all ye that bend the bow, shoot at her, spare no arrows: for she hath sinned against the LORD.
15Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the LORD: take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her.
16Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.
17Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
18Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.
19And I will bring Israel again to his habitation, and he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan, and his soul shall be satisfied upon mount Ephraim and Gilead.
20In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
21Go up against the land of Merathaim, even against it, and against the inhabitants of Pekod: waste and utterly destroy after them, saith the LORD, and do according to all that I have commanded thee.
22A sound of battle is in the land, and of great destruction.
23How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
24I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.
25The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans.
26Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left.
27Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation.
28The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple.
29Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
30Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD.
31Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee.
32And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him.
33Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go.
34Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.
35A sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men.
36A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed.
37A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people that are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed.
38A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols.
39Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation.
40As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.
41Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
42They shall hold the bow and the lance: they are cruel, and will not shew mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they shall ride upon horses, every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon.
43The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail.
44Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong: but I will make them suddenly run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?
45Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Babylon; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them. 46At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.
Jeremiah 50:1-46
This is difficult to read the way you posted it. I'll read it on my own and get back to it later.
 
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reddogs

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Babylon is indeed a fitting symbol for the end-time apostate system which will bring on the final apostasy against God and His law.
Therefore is the name of it [the tower] called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:9.

The forces at work today pushin for a new world order politically and spiritually is a attempt to recreate a form of the tower of Babel and to once again unite all peoples in apostasy against God. Babel means confusion, and we are told that the kings of the earth will commit fornication with Babylon. (Revelation 17:2)

Anyone who accepts the authority of the false religion of Babylon is acknowledging the authority of the 'god of Babylon', whether it be a government or a religious system. As such they become subject to Babylon, and pay it homage, rather than God homage. The choice is up to you.


4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:4-10
 
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Jimlarmore

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This passage is about Israel being called out of exile after 70 years of captivity in Babylon. How do you draw all that you just proposed out of Zechariah 2 and apply it to us today?

The application is clear and appropo. Nearly half of the texts in Revelation have a counterpart Old Testament reference text/s. Here clearly we can see a prime example of John using nearly the same phraseology in Rev 18:4.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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freeindeed2

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The application is clear and appropo. Nearly half of the texts in Revelation have a counterpart Old Testament reference text/s. Here clearly we can see a prime example of John using nearly the same phraseology in Rev 18:4.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
And I don't really have a problem with that, but I think there are many different applications/interpretations as to what exactly it means, even among Adventists.

BUT...where does he get the following from the texts being discussed?:
reddogs said:
"What is Satan's purpose", and the answer is plain:
"Satan wants to be like God "
" He desires worship"
"he has hoped to get worship and allegiance through deception."
"I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God"
" he could seize the sovereignty that Christ had above all other created thrones"
"Lucifer's ambition was to sit on the mount of the congregation—an ambition that once fulfilled would no doubt win the angels' allegiance and their worship"
"Lucifer wants to deny that Jesus really was God so he can make assert himself as god to mankind"
This was coupled with it.
 
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Jimlarmore

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I think he answered that question when he quoted Isa 14:14 where the Bible says lucifer said " I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most high."

Are you asking him to provide a reference to this or some other part of what he wrote? Maybe the part you are asking about is his original work partner. Not everything people write on the SDA forum comes from EG White.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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reddogs

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As I have said my brothers, I have been out in the spiritual wilderness for many years and avoided Ellen White or other related counsels and writtings like the plauge, until God awoke me like Rip Van Winkle and slowly brought me back, so I am learning or relearning truth as He allows or the Holy Spirit opens my understanding.......

Thus I seek Gods truth first, and pray for Holy Spirit opens my eyes to understanding, then see what it matchs up to and if it matches what Ellen White (or others who God uses) gave, then I am compelled by the Spirit to admit, accept and share the truth that is given me....
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Well Free you are right to questions the traditions that say God is in a struggle with Satan. The conflict is not between God and satan but between who we will hold allegiance too. So the controversy is within our minds, it is not between angels and supposed unfallen worlds it is about us and God. Jesus has said that satan now stands condemned. Jesus called satan a liar and murderer from the beginning. The Bible is not about satan, it carries nothing of satan's side of the story and you won't really find it anywhere at least until satanism in the last hundred years or so. And of course there is no reason to think that the Satanism view is any more correct then all the medieval stories of satan.

Of course anything not of God is going to be counted as a part of satan's kingdom so reddog is not completely wrong he has just accepted traditions such as Isaiah 14 being about satan instead of the kind of babylon to who it was written as a death dirge. (which is really a cool poetic chapter as it addresses a sitting king and talks about him from the perspective of people talking about him after he died.) It is this kind of creative eisegesis that people use to pretend they know so much about satan when the Bible actually gives little information about him. In fact the old testament is very sparse with even the mention of satan. From their created story about satan they move to everything else. Since the story is their own creation (which they accept by tradition) they can easily connect anything they want to their view of satan. It is curious however why they are so focused on satan however. I think they use it to degrade others, such as with those who go to church on Sunday in honor of the resurrection. People like reddog seem to think that they go in honor of the sun god because of the day name sunday, though I am sure he does not think that going to church on Saturday is in honor to Saturn. So they create complex satan inspired plans which of course take them back to their inserted tradition about satan.
 
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