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What is pulling America Apart?

rambot

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THAT is a fair point.
 
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Mayzoo

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Functional mental illness on both sides IMO; we can function in society, but not as we should be functioning. Symptoms include: quick to anger (almost constant state of low-grade anger), lack of empathy, lack of concern for the public welfare of those who disagree with us, lack of willingness to compromise in almost all veins of life, vindictiveness ie own the ____(fill in the blank mentality), lack of rationale thought patterns leading to inability to discern fact from propaganda.

And this is not limited to just politics either.
 
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Margaret3110

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I think as a society we have lost or are losing the capacity to think deeply about things, to form our own opinions, and to have genuine healthy discussions and debates.

So everything becomes polarized and extreme. People believe what they are told to believe. They demonize those who have different opinions.
 
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RDKirk

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I agree with this, including the person who was the apparent cause.
 
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RDKirk

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If the side saying "the dinner party hosts are pedophiles" are content merely to stay home from the dinner party along with anyone else who believes the same thing, rather than prohibit the dinner party (that is: tolerance), then there's no problem.
 
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RDKirk

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Depends on what they're calling "repression."

As I've said before, when the Civil Rights Act was passed, we black people never expected white people to ever like us as a result of the law. We just wanted equal civil rights. "You don't have to like me. But if you're selling hotdogs to everyone else in the public, then sell hotdogs to me too."

Today, it's regarded as "oppression" if everyone doesn't like and celebrate us. "You won't celebrate Juneteenth with me? You're oppressing me!" And we constantly create and upgrade more and more litmus tests to that effect, more and more difficult tests to avoid the charge of "oppressor."

"You won't let me walk out of your store with an item I haven't paid for? Oppressor!"

Repeat that for every other group that has coalesced into its own self-identified "identity." Do you remember the Black Liberation flag ever being flown from the White House or any government building back in the 60s and 70s? No, you don't...it never happened. We never expected it.

But today, failing to fly the LGBTQIA+ flag is called oppression.
 
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rambot

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If the side saying "the dinner party hosts are pedophiles" are content merely to stay home from the dinner party along with anyone else who believes the same thing, rather than prohibit the dinner party (that is: tolerance), then there's no problem.
I agree so long as they do not also slander by saying they are dangerous to children, sure.

Of course that is not happenning. There are many people doing more than just sitting on their couch not going to the party. And what is stopping the couch people from saying "I disagree with you but please go ahead and fill your boots because you have the constitutional right to do so.
 
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RDKirk

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I agree so long as they do not also slander by saying they are dangerous to children, sure.
Slander is sufficiently prosecutable by law, if that's what's occuring.
What is happening?
 
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Richard T

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John Adams said our Constitution was made “only for a moral and religious people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you have more and more unbelievers and they are pushing for a new progressive values you are bound to have more polarization. The bible says in the last days love will grow cold too. Not so many nice people, educators that are often bent on indoctrination and anti-God stuff, media that is clearly biased all play into this answer. There are other factors, that the pdf also points out such as inequality. In a sense evil has gotten bolder and more upfront, and many Christians have responded with their agendas, making clashes inevitable.

A good question is what can turn this around? Revival/renewal is hopeful and impactful. Negative events too like war or some serious disasters can also work to bring people together. You can see the democrats now getting uncomfortable with their own that are antisemitic and the Republicans too are split in many ways. Sad for the USA but it seems pretty predictable.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Well, to be fair, the framers were divided on the issue.

People will often cite quotes like the on you have above to make a claim that it was intended to be a religious nation (and we can get into the problems and pitfalls of that if you'd like) ...or the slight variation of that same sentiment which is what you expressed, which is "this limited government stuff only works if everyone believes in God"

But then neglect to mention that other framers/founders made statements like these (all made by different framers)
The Bible is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind.

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.


It's important to note that what's considered an atheist or agnostic today, would've often been referred to as a "deist" in those times. And a substantial portion of the the gentlemen who helped set up our country fit that mold.

For every John Adams and John Jay, there was a Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine.
 
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timothyu

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In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
That is why they abandoned the Kingdom of God to align themselves first with the Roman Empire and down the line. Oddly also many American evangelical pastors seem to think they have a political edge because they are perfect (prefect?) examples of free enterprise and capitalism (also contrary to the Kingdom).
 
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Pommer

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What are we to do until the blessed event?
That’s what politics is about, innit?
 
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Ana the Ist

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What's funny is you seem to pretty clearly understand the divide, but don't understand why or how these concepts get shaped along the lines they do.

We only have to go back to the previous Democratic President to see that Democrats....literally a decade ago...didn't support mass migration. Obama deported more illegals than Bush. He supported building infrastructure along the border...his entire term.

Because Trump was essentially a one issue candidate (build the wall)...Democrats had to distance themselves from that as much as possible. It's not that it was the wrong position....nor that it was racist or xenophobic. It was painted that way though...to win votes...because we have a 2 party system.

When covid became the death knell of small businesses....and the employee shortage of 2021 happened...businesses were desperate to hire anyone and it seemed like, briefly, some leverage was found for the working class to increase wages.

What happened? 9 million people, roughly were allowed into the country...for virtually any reason....and now we have children working in factories. Seriously.

If you're against what you put on the Democrats side as "corporate greed" then you should also be against what you put on the Republican side as "mass migration". Those 9 million people have easily guaranteed wages will stay flat for another generation.

If you want to boil it down to one problem it's this...the average voter is to dumb to understand the problems. If you think the younger generation should be able to afford an education, healthcare, housing and all the things we consider necessary....then literally the worst thing you can do is flood the market with cheap disposable labor. Anyone who stays drives up the price of healthcare, education, housing and drives down wages for those at the bottom of the economic ladder.
 
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d taylor

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What are we to do until the blessed event?
That’s what politics is about, innit?

Well the first thing and most important is to believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Work hard and live your life as humbly and as honest as you can. trying best to follow the laws of the land and to understand that government is not the solution.

For me politics is about getting politicians and their buddies rich.
 
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Bradskii

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I think we can all take time to mark the progress we've made and use it as a reminder of the work still to be done. I can use the Gay Mardi Gras in Sydney as an example. We used to attend as a mark of solidarity with gay rights. Now so much progress has been made here that it's more of a celebration of that fact and it's turned into a party rather than a demonstration. The original march for rights served it's purpose. So...we don't bother going any more. But turning up is not used as a 'litmus test' as to your position on gay rights. And anyone else who suggested that I didn't support them because I don't now go would get short thrift.
"You won't let me walk out of your store with an item I haven't paid for? Oppressor!"
Hyperbole doesn't help in this type of discussion.
 
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Pommer

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No, politics fights over the selfishness of man while those of the Kingdom care for others including their enemies.
Well, when the Kingdom is here you’ll have it the way you’d like it; until then we have to consider all of those not in our in-groups.
 
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Pommer

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That’s nice; does one’s politics “change” when one repents?
Anybody else see doublethink here?
For me politics is about getting politicians and their buddies rich.
There is that, yes, the trick to to get some benefit for the rest of us while they rake it in.
We’ve departed from that station some time ago.
 
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