What is our state of being after we die?

[tonychanyt]

Hezekiah likened death to oblivion in (BSB) Isaiah 38:

17b but Your love has delivered me [H5315 my soul] from the pit of oblivion.

Job likened death to sleep in 14:

12 so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep.

Daniel 12:

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

What happens when the human spirit departs?

Acts 7:

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

When Stephen's spirit left his body, it went to Jesus' care. His soul was deactivated, and his body died. His soul data was zipped up and then stored or saved (pardon the computer pun) in the Lord's memory.

Is this the same as soul sleep?

Somewhat yes. However, when one sleeps, he does not lose his consciousness completely. I'd rather not use the term soul sleep. The concept of soul zip is slightly different.

2 Corinthians 5:

8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

The soul data is saved at home with the Lord. The soul has a definite temporal beginning. Its animation life (consciousness) depends on the breath of God. It develops from its life experience. Its life can be suspended. Without the breath of God, it becomes unconscious until the last day, John 6:

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

When a person's spirit departs, he dies, he is no longer conscious, and his soul is stored in a secure place. He no longer experiences the passage of time. However, in God's mind, we are alive in him, Lk 20:

38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.

On the last day, my body will be reconstructed based on the stored soul data and genetic information. God will unzip my soul data and restore my soul.

Do believers go to heaven immediately after death?

Yes, but in the form of soul data zip. As far as the zipped soul is concerned, there is no literal sleep or waiting time between death and resurrection. This is the nature of time/eternity.

If believers will enjoy heaven after death before the resurrection, will unbelievers be tormented in hell before the resurrection?

I doubt it. The key event is the resurrection of the dead on the last day.

See also

• When a believer dies, will he be with God as a sentient being right away?
• Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

 

[BobRyan]

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

But as you say it is not body-sleep where when we sleep some time does pass so when we wake we have some idea as to how long we have been asleep. There is no passing of time in the case of what 1 Thess 4 is describing as sleep. So the instant one dies they are with Jesus and the angels wide awake at the resurrection of event described in 1 Thess 4.

John 11 "Our friend Lazarus sleeps - I go that I may awaken Him".

 

[Ace777]

What happens when the human spirit departs?

The two biggest mysteries are what happened before time began and what is consciousness.
Perhaps the beginning is a marriage of time and matter and the end is a divorce

 

[tonychanyt]

The two biggest mysteries are what happened before time began

Good point.

Before God created space-time, there was God and eternality. Click the link and follow up there

 

[Qubit]

The two biggest mysteries are what happened before time began

We were the Morning Stars that sang together...

Job 38:7
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

God revealed where Job was before the universe was created.

Most Christians do not understand that we have always existed.

...and what is consciousness.

Consciousness is Spirit (Electromagnetism/Power).

Soul is the Genome.

Perhaps the beginning is a marriage of time and matter and the end is a divorce

Reminds me of Hieros Gamos.

 

[Ace777]

Most Christians do not understand that we have always existed.

I believe our name is written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation of the world. Morning Star means Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus taught in Luke 16:19-31 that people have consciousness after they physically die. He described a rich man as experiencing torment in hell.

John saw souls in heaven and they were conscious (Revelation 6:9-11).

Moses and Elijah, who were physically dead, talked to Jesus at His transfiguration. You might try to argue that Elijah didn't die, but he did. Regardless of that, Moses certainly died (Deuteronmy 34:5-7) and, yet, he talked to Jesus at His transfiguration. Surely, he was not talking in his sleep.

Paul saying that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8) proves that one's soul can separate from their body. Otherwise talking about being absent from the body would be ludicrous. What should we think, that to be present with the Lord is to be unconscious with the Lord? I certainly don't believe that makes any sense.

Paul also indicated that he fully expected to be with the Lord immediately upon death here:

Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Surely, Paul was not saying it was far better to depart his body (physically die) and be with Christ in an unconscious state than it was to be physically alive. Paul fully expected to go to heaven immediately upon his physical death and to retain consciousness while being in the presence of Christ.

Jesus said, by referencing Exodus 3:6, that God IS the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and therefore He is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32). If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are completely dead/unconscious as those who believe in soul sleep think, then that would mean God is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob since He is not the God of the dead. What it means for God to not be the God of the dead, but of the living is that He is only the God of those who are spiritually alive, like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, me and you, but not the God of those who are spiritually dead in their sins.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

But as you say it is not body-sleep where when we sleep some time does pass so when we wake we have some idea as to how long we have been asleep. There is no passing of time in the case of what 1 Thess 4 is describing as sleep. So the instant one dies they are with Jesus and the angels wide awake at the resurrection of event described in 1 Thess 4.

John 11 "Our friend Lazarus sleeps - I go that I may awaken Him".

There is time in heaven, so I disagree with this. It is only that body that sleeps, not the soul and spirit.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Only God experiences timelessness. He created time. Only He exists outside of time. To Him a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day (2 Peter 3:8). No amount of time makes any difference to Him as He exists outside of it. But, everything within His creation, which includes heaven, experiences time. Time may be different in some way in heaven than on earth. It probably is. But, there is still time in heaven in some way, shape or form as Revelation 8:1 shows.

 

[tonychanyt]

Jesus taught in Luke 16:19-31 that people have consciousness after they physically die. He described a rich man as experiencing torment in hell.

Let proposition P1 = After a person dies, his soul/spirit will remain conscious before the general resurrection.

Is P1 true?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hezekiah likened death to oblivion in (BSB) Isaiah 38:


Job likened death to sleep in 14:


Daniel 12:


What happens when the human spirit departs?

Acts 7:


When Stephen's spirit left his body, it went to Jesus' care. His soul was deactivated, and his body died. His soul data was zipped up and then stored or saved (pardon the computer pun) in the Lord's memory.

Is this the same as soul sleep?

Somewhat yes. However, when one sleeps, he does not lose his consciousness completely. I'd rather not use the term soul sleep. The concept of soul zip is slightly different.

2 Corinthians 5:


The soul data is saved at home with the Lord. The soul has a definite temporal beginning. Its animation life (consciousness) depends on the breath of God. It develops from its life experience. Its life can be suspended. Without the breath of God, it becomes unconscious until the last day, John 6:


When a person's spirit departs, he dies, he is no longer conscious, and his soul is stored in a secure place. He no longer experiences the passage of time. However, in God's mind, we are alive in him, Lk 20:


On the last day, my body will be reconstructed based on the stored soul data and genetic information. God will unzip my soul data and restore my soul.

Do believers go to heaven immediately after death?

Yes, but in the form of soul data zip. As far as the zipped soul is concerned, there is no literal sleep or waiting time between death and resurrection. This is the nature of time/eternity.

If believers will enjoy heaven after death before the resurrection, will unbelievers be tormented in hell before the resurrection?

I doubt it. The key event is the resurrection of the dead on the last day.

See also

• When a believer dies, will he be with God as a sentient being right away?
• Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

Totally disagree with a lot here.

There is no soul sleep or “zip” in scripture . The body sleeps in the grace but the spirit and soul are conscious after death as many scriptures can prove.

 

[tonychanyt]

There is no soul sleep or “zip” in scripture .

Right.

The body sleeps in the grace.

verse?

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 7:

When Stephen's spirit left his body, it went to Jesus' care. His soul was deactivated, and his body died. His soul data was zipped up and then stored or saved (pardon the computer pun) in the Lord's memory.

Is this the same as soul sleep?

Somewhat yes.

1 Thess 4:13-18 -- uses the term "fallen asleep in Jesus"
1 Cor 15 -- uses the term "sleep"

But as you point out it is not like normal sleep where time does pass for the one sleeping. When we wake up we can easily have some sense for how much time has passed. But in the Bible "thoughts cease" the Psalms point out. So then there is only "an instant" between the moment of death and the instant we are confronted with the second coming. No time passes at all for the one waking. No separation, no loss, no sense of being away from our Lord and Savior just before death comforted by His Spirit and then instantly at the great appearing of Christ in 1 Thess 4.

 

[BobRyan]

Totally disagree with a lot here.

There is no soul sleep or “zip” in scripture . The body sleeps in the grace but the spirit and soul are conscious after death as many scriptures can prove.

Matt 10:28 says "kill the body not the soul" -- does not say "sleep the body"

Eccl 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it

Gen 3: 19 By the sweat of your face
You shall eat bread,
Until you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”

 

[BobRyan]

Totally disagree with a lot here.

There is no soul sleep or “zip” in scripture . The body sleeps

the body is "destroyed" -- killed Matt 10;28 -- "returns to dust" Gen 3. It does not sleep.
The PERSON sleeps "Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake HIM" John 11.

"WE shall not all SLEEP but WE shall al be changed" 1 Cor 15.

"Those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus" 1 Thess 4:13-18

the spirit and soul are conscious

It appears that the person is in fact dormant.

 

[David Lamb]

the body is "destroyed" -- killed Matt 10;28 -- "returns to dust" Gen 3. It does not sleep.
The PERSON sleeps "Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake HIM" John 11.

"WE shall not all SLEEP but WE shall al be changed" 1 Cor 15.

"Those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus" 1 Thess 4:13-18

It appears that the person is in fact dormant.

So which part of the dying thief's being did Jesus refer to when He said from the cross, "Today you will be with Me in paradise?"

 

[LoveofTruth]

the body is "destroyed" -- killed Matt 10;28 -- "returns to dust" Gen 3. It does not sleep.
The PERSON sleeps "Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake HIM" John 11.

"WE shall not all SLEEP but WE shall al be changed" 1 Cor 15.

"Those WHO have fallen asleep in Jesus" 1 Thess 4:13-18

It appears that the person is in fact dormant.

No, the body is a part of us and it sleeps awaiting the resurrection and we wait for the redemption of our body.

The soul and spirit are conscious after death as many scriptures prove.

Many

 

[tonychanyt]

The soul and spirit are conscious after death as many scriptures prove.

See Does a dead person's soul experience time like a living person? and follow up there

 

[LoveofTruth]

See Does a dead person's soul experience time like a living person? and follow up there

This is not a parable, it’s a realistic story showing consciousness after death and what happened to the Old Testamebt saints before Jesus died and ride again abd what happens to the lost. Jesus story would be very confusing if he tells that the souls are conscious avd have some kind of body and can see and speak etc if they were not conscious avd did not have a body etc.

All attempt to twist this section into a parable and make it meaningless or to try and say exactly the opposite of what this’ story shows are erroneous abd all that is needed really is this one section of scripture but there are many more scriptures as well.

Luke 16: 19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Even if some say this was not an actual story, it is very realistic. But it is definitely not showing a erroneous doctrine of “soul sleep”, or soul zip”.

Definitely.