What is Orthodox Christianity?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

There were originally, I believe, 5 Patriarchates (though I may be wrong). These were Rome, Antioch (in Greece), Jerusalem, Constantinople (now Istanbul in Turkey) and Alexandria (not sure about the last one, though). The Bishop of Rome (Pope--which is really an honourary title given to a number of Patriarchs in different denominations meaning "father") is the Patriarch of the Catholic Church's Latin Rite. He is also the Universal earthly head (beneath Christ and His representative) in Catholic thought.

The EO believe that from the beginning all 5 were equal, but Rome had primacy of honour as it's Bishop was "the first among equals"--that primacy being the only difference between the Patriarch in Rome and the other 4. Catholics believe that from the beginning the Pope (Bishop of Rome and Patriarch) was supreme to the others, because we believe he was also chosen to "Feed My sheep" as Christ says and was made "the rock on which I will build My Church".

The EO accept these passages with a similar interpretation but say Peter is primary in honour but not supreme or infallible on official declarations. Catholics believe the Pope alone has the charism of infallibility meaning that when the Pope speaks ex cathedra (in his role as sucessor of Peter and vicarius Christi in teaching all of Christ's faithful) on matters of faith and morality, he cannot err. The EO see this as an addition to the deposit of Faith and an abuse of Petrine (of Peter) primacy.

Clear as mud? Basically the Eastern Orthodox say the successor of Peter and Patriarch of the West (i.e. the Bishop of Rome) deserves special honour but has no authoritative or adminstartive power over the other Patriarchs, nor is he the universal pastor and shepherd. He is only the first among equals with all other Patriarchs. They believe it was so since the beginning but Rome tried to exert unwarranted power over others and this was a departure from the intentions of Christ and the real meaning of Petrine primacy

Catholics say he is infallible (cannot be wrong) on matters of faith and morality when speaking in his role as Petrine successor. They belive he is the vicar (representative) of Christ, and as universal pastor and shepherd (under Christ, we're talking earthly here) has authority over all human beings on the face of the earth...no earthly power is greater than his. This includes all Patriarchs. We believe it has been so since Peter and still is so for Benedict.

Now, as to who is right...well, it's clearly the Catholics. Not that I'm biased or anything...

Rant over. You can wake up.

Peace
Rob

Although I would disagree with Robbie, I am glad to see that he is so well informed as to the Orthodox position.

Very well written, from the Catholic point of view...

I would add that "the rock" spoken of by Christ when speaking to Peter is (from the Orthodox view) "the faith" of Peter and not Peter himself.

Chirst is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

*Orthodoxyusa shakes hands with Robbie*

At least we agree that we disagree... no bloodshed!

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Although I would disagree with Robbie, I am glad to see that he is so well informed as to the Orthodox position.

Very well written, from the Catholic point of view...

*Orthodoxyusa shakes hands with Robbie*

At least we agree that we disagree... no bloodshed!

Pax!

 

[Diane_Windsor]

I highly suggest reading Kallistos (Timothy) Ware's books The Orthodox Way and The Orthodox Church-both are available at Amazon. He is an Anglican convert who is now a Bishop.

Diane

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I highly suggest reading Kallistos (Timothy) Ware's books The Orthodox Way and The Orthodox Church-both are available at Amazon. He is an Anglican convert who is now a Bishop.

Diane

Both are wonderful books... I would also suggest anything by Fr. Peter Gilquist.

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me...

 

[stray bullet]

- the Eastern sees traditionally saw Rome as a sister church, specially honored (Peter resided there) but equal in status to any other Patriarchate. Rome, meanwhile, saw itself as the "head" of the Church, to a certain extent believing that the Roman see itself, and not the other sees, was the true "rock" upon which the Church was built (refer to Matthew 16:18)

A Patriarch is a Bishop who oversees a specific Church....such as Antioch (I am Antiochian), or Russia, or Alexandrea. The Orthodox consider the Pope of Rome to be the Patriarch of the Roman Church.... and has alway been viewed, until 1054, to be 1st among equals.

Just wanted to point out that in fact the early Church, councils and eastern patriarchs did in fact see the role of the Pope as the head of the Church and being more than just a role of honor.

The idea of a Pope as not being the head of the Church goes against what has been stated throughout the early Church, even in the east.

The 'honor' status is something created by the Orthodox Church, which doesn't seem to be actually based on any of the early councils they claim to cling to. In some of the council's statements, it is made quite clear the Pope is the head of the Church. The Catholic and early Church belief has been repeated through the centuries at all four eastern Apostolic Sees before the schism.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Just wanted to point out that in fact the early Church, councils and eastern patriarchs did in fact see the role of the Pope as the head of the Church and being more than just a role of honor.

The idea of a Pope as not being the head of the Church goes against what has been stated throughout the early Church, even in the east.

The 'honor' status is something created by the Orthodox Church, which doesn't seem to be actually based on any of the early councils they claim to cling to. In some of the council's statements, it is made quite clear the Pope is the head of the Church. The Catholic and early Church belief has been repeated through the centuries at all four eastern Apostolic Sees before the schism.

From the Vatican side of the story......

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well,

"Truth Tank" is obviously full of holes, doesn't know what he is talking about and he is violating the Rules.

Forgive me...

 

[Truth Tank]

Orthodox USA, you are using adhominal arguments and thus violating the rules. I"m not attacking you personally. YOu might be a nice guy.

I'm just saying that Easter Catholicism is not part of the gospel found in Paul's epistles.

Truth Tank

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Paul was baptised and Trained in Damascus... on a Street called Straight. (ACTS 9)

Do you know what is on Straight Street in Damascus?

The headquarters of the Antiochian Orthodox Church... look it up.

The very same Church that baptised and trained Paul.

It's the very same Church, in the very same place it has been for 2000 years....

Never closed. Never in exile... not reformed....

I belong to that Chruch, I am an Antiochian Orthodox Christian.... I belong to the very same Chruch that trained Paul.

Now the Orthodox Church is very much against change, in fact just to define something requires a council of Bishops, acting as equals, led by the Holy Spirit, and ratified by the entire Church body. Very well documented.

If as you would say that we have changed something... anything... where is the council that produced the change? How was it done?

There are seven councils that the Orthodox Church has endorsed, they are called the seven Ecumenical councils...

The Orthodox maintain what has always been believed by every Christian, everywhere from the beginning.... anything outside that is not Orthodox.

We do not allow for change. We maintain the Apostolic truths as they were given by Christ himself.

Christ does not change and neither does his Church.

So you are telling me that you understand Pauls letters to his Churches better than the Church who trained him and he called home....

My friend, if it wearn't for the Church you would not have Paul's letters.

Forgive me....

 

[WickedServant]

I'm know about Catholic & Protestant Churches. But could anyone tell me about Orthodox Christianity, how is it different from Catholic and protestant beliefs. Any difference between Greek, Russian etc churches?

It is the continuation of the church we read about in the NT, which was the only Christian denomination for roughly 1000 years. crosseo: one holy catholic and apostolic Church ) Apparently, to this day, services and gatherings remain basically the same as they were back when Paul and the others were around...

Greek, Russian, English? Any Orthodox is all Orthodox.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It is the continuation of the church we read about in the NT, which was the only Christian denomination for roughly 1000 years. crosseo: one holy catholic and apostolic Church ) Apparently, to this day, services and gatherings remain basically the same as they were back when Paul and the others were around...

Greek, Russian, English? Any Orthodox is all Orthodox.

 

[Viva]

Hello Friend,

Orthodox "Christianity" is an Eastern Faith that has acquired customs and rituals that distract one from the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

 

[Viva]

With respect,

It is completely different then what Paul or any of the Apostles practiced or ever heard of.

 

[ps139]

Hello Friend,

Orthodox "Christianity" is an Eastern Faith that has acquired customs and rituals that distract one from the gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

IMO, they have kept more of what was originally there than other churches.
Read the Early Fathers of the Church, then see how the Orthodox worship, and what they believe, and you will notice a lot of similarity.

The Early Fathers of the Church were men who were disciples of the actual disciples... and their disciples and so on.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

With respect,

It is completely different then what Paul or any of the Apostles practiced or ever heard of.

Let me first point out some facts and see if I understand your position correctly...

I am an Antiochian Orthodox Christian.

I belong to the Church of Antioch mentioned in the book of ACTS....

In ACTS chapter 9 we see Paul going to Damascus and being told to go to a house on a street called Straight where he will be healed, baptised and taught by Ananias and the disciples which were at Damascus.

The Headquarters of the Antiochian Orthodox Church is on the Street called Straight in Damascus.... it has been there for 2000 years... never having been in exile, it has been maintained for 2000 years.

Ananias is a recorded member of the Antiochian Church.

The Orthodox Chruch's mission has always been to maintain the complete deposit of faith without change as handed down by Christ Jesus, through his Apostles.

The Orthodox Church is conciliar (run by council) and all council decisions are well recorded and must be voted on by all the members of the Church in order to make any doctrine that will effect the entire Church. 99% of all councils have been held to clarify a position as being orthodox (having been believed by all members of the Church, everywhere, from the beginning) and to combat heretical (incorrectly held) positions.


Is it your position that the Church who baptised and trained Paul has somehow changed.... at that you know better than she what her doctrine and training has always been? Is that correct?

If so how did you aquire this knowledge?

Did you read the Bible? Is that your answer? The very Bible that the Orthodox Church has provided to you?

The bible itself was never intended to be the complete and exhaustive work on Christianity. Christ would have written it himself had it been so...

Christ left us a Church and a faith to be maintained without deviation, not a book, nor several books.

If, as you say, the Orthodox Church has changed and is now "completely different then what Paul or any of the Apostles practiced or ever heard of". I challenge you to show what has changed... when it changed... and by what council.


I await your answer...


Edited to add: The earliest Christian worship you will find is the "Liturgy of St. James" of Jerusalem... This 1st century Liturgy is still practiced today and is the prototype of all Liturgy used by the Orthodox Church today.

Forgive me...

 

[sonnyh48]

This is Orthodoxyusa setting up an account for a new user.... sonnyh48

Forgive me....

 

[kofh2u]

With respect,

It is completely different then what Paul or any of the Apostles practiced or ever heard of.

1) There IS ab Eastern Orthodox Church, the Greek and Eastern European counterpart of the Roman Catholoc Church.
The two were once one, but around 1000 AD they argued over doctrine, though certainly political and cultural underlying differences was the root cause. Thr]e Orthodox Church validated the use of Icon, flat relief-like paintings which, IMO, were part of a Christian Kabbalah used as instructional aids. The illiterate populace could get visual reinforcements from these Icons during the Gospel instructions.

A second use of the term, Orthodox Christian, really means Traditional Christian.

The implication is a matter of uusurping status, similar to the implied better" or "more true" that Orthodox Jews use "against Reformed and Conservative Congregations.

Members of some few Mainstream Denominational Christian churches, those which are centuries old, call themselves "Orthodox," meaning superior because they are old in their ways.

Of course, the history of religion in Western Europe sort of suggests "unorthodox" might mean less corrupt, more honest in interpretation, and better for adding the secular knowledge to their understanding of the scriptures.

As you suggest is in your own mind, the 1000 years of the monks living in thst Monastic Age has no relationship to the behavior of the masses, nor the lack of any real spiritual guidance for the masses of Europeans that attended ritualized services and lived in a stoic society that repressed the Collective and individual Pleasure Principle.

Today, Orthodox means accepting the Nicean Creed as t
e basics to one's understanding of scripture.

All IMO, of course.

 

[CPman2004]

Question has been answered, and it is becomeing a debate.