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What is lukewarm?

DamianWarS

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Rev 3:16 for those who missed the memo.

When I read the text I see warm/cold water contrasted with lukewarm. Warm/cold being good and desirable and lukewarm being bad and undesirable.

What I don't see is the temperature of water a scale of our passion, cold being no belief, lukewarm wishy-washy and hot being "on fire for Jesus".

Do we really want to believe that God desires unbelief over the struggling Christian? What a horrible picture of God that reveals. Be perfect or don't come at all. Completely counter-gospel.
 

brinny

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Rev 3:16 for those who missed the memo.

When I read the text I see warm/cold water contrasted with lukewarm. Warm/cold being good and desirable and lukewarm being bad and undesirable.

What I don't see is the temperature of water a scale of our passion, cold being no belief, lukewarm wishy-washy and hot being "on fire for Jesus".

Do we really want to believe that God desires unbelief over the struggling Christian? What a horrible picture of God that reveals. Be perfect or don't come at all. Completely counter-gospel.

"Cold" is an unbeliever. They genuinely don't believe, and therefore have no reason to say yay or nay about a God they don't believe in.

However, "lukewarm" IS knowing Who God is and brushing Him off cavalierly, as if He's an "after thought". They know the Bible verses, seen God's hand moooove, know of His grace and mercy, and could care less.

"Lukewarm" is NOT a "struggling" child of God. A "struggling" child of God is like most of us, maybe discouraged, maybe doubting, maybe struggling with sin, but they "care". They WANT to be "right with God, and bring it all to Him. They cry over their failures. They "care".

The question is, why would "lukewarm" literally "sicken" God?
 
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DamianWarS

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DamianWarS

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Lukewarm = not on fire.

I guess we all better examine ourselves on this one??

M-Bob

where does the text say lukewarm is not on fire? The text tells us lukewarm is undesirable and hot and cold are desirable. Should I not seek the fruits God desires be it hot or cold? I enjoy a good cold glass of water from time to time.
 
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brinny

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Where does the text say this? What I see is cold/hot is desirable and lukewarm is undesirable. Wherever do we get this idea that this must mean cold is a non-believer?

"Cold" is NOT "desirable". God is using it as an example to say that "lukewarm" is under condemnation even more than "cold" simply because "lukewarm" is like "meh" about the living God, even though they have SEEN His goodness, His love, His grace, and His mercy.

It "sickens" God. Literally.

Why do you think "lukewarm" literally "sickens" God?

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth." ~Rev 3:16
 
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DamianWarS

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"Cold" is NOT "desirable". God is using it as an example to say that "lukewarm" is under condemnation even more than "cold" simply because "lukewarm" is like "meh" about the living God, even though they have SEEN His goodness, His love, His grace, and His mercy.

It "sickens" God. Literally.

Why do you think "lukewarm" literally "sickens" God?

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth." ~Rev 3:16

I drink a lot of coffee. I love hot coffee. I love iced coffee. but when I take a sip of coffee that has been left out for a while and it has become lukewarm I literally want to spit it out and often I do.

With Laodicea it is a personal reference. Neighbouring Hierapolis with it's hot springs and Colossae with it's natural ground fed cold water. Laodicea was a great city that denied finical aid when it was devastated by earthquakes. they took their own might and money and rebuilt, so they were a wealthy, strong and a proud city. but they had a problem, they had minerally warm aqueduct fed water, it was bad tasting and visitors would take their first taste and spit it out in discuss (like my warm coffee). calling Laodicea lukewarm is personal, it is calling them out saying it doesn't matter how powerful you are you still have bad water.

^that fits the context. saying lukewarm is a dispassionate believer fits nothing and the context doesn't even suggest this. where did we get this idea?
 
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brinny

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I drink a lot of coffee. I love hot coffee. I love iced coffee. but when I take a sip of coffee that has been left out for a while and it has become lukewarm I literally want to spit it out and often I do.

With Laodicea it is a personal reference. Neighbouring Hierapolis with it's hot springs and Colossae with it's natural ground fed cold water. Laodicea was a great city that denied finical aid when it was devastated by earthquakes. they took their own might and money and rebuilt, so they were a wealthy, strong and a proud city. but they had a problem, they had minerally warm aqueduct fed water, it was bad tasting and visitors would take their first taste and spit it out in discuss (like my warm coffee). calling Laodicea lukewarm is personal, it is calling them out saying it doesn't matter how powerful you are you still have bad water.

^that fits the context. saying lukewarm is a dispassionate believer fits nothing and the context doesn't even suggest this. where did we get this idea?

The Bible verse is speaking about what "sickens" God, spiritually.

It is perhaps a "warning".

Amen?
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Lukewarm

We of this house find that the best way to "fire it back up again" is a solemn repentance followed by communion in church.

Examine oneself.

Be sure to finish the good race.

M-Bob
 
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DamianWarS

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The Bible verse is speaking about what "sickens" God, spiritually.

It is perhaps a "warning".

Amen?

we agree lukewarm is that which sickens God. The text contrasts this "sickening" with the desirable which is hot and cold water (useful and desirable forms of water that you wouldn't spit out). The text qualifies what lukewarm is, with a false sense of power and a glorification of self (v17), God then urges the church to seek their source riches on him rather than themselves (v18). If God "wishes we were hot or cold" (v15) and lukewarm is liken to v17 (the undesirable sickening stuff) than hot and cold are liken to v18 which is what he desires.

No where does the text tell us this is a lack of zeal or passion for Christ.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Okay, let's just boil it down to what we really know, without the speculation. A lukewarm glass of water is the same temperature as the world around it. A lukewarm person resembles the world around him. I don't know what hot or cold specifically means, if anything, other than it isn't lukewarm.
 
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brinny

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we agree lukewarm is that which sickens God. The text contrasts this "sickening" with the desirable which is hot and cold water (useful and desirable forms of water that you wouldn't spit out). The text qualifies what lukewarm is, with a false sense of power and a glorification of self (v17), God then urges the church to seek their source riches on him rather than themselves (v18). If God "wishes we were hot or cold" (v15) and lukewarm is liken to v17 (the undesirable sickening stuff) than hot and cold are liken to v18 which is what he desires.

No where does the text tell us this is a lack of zeal or passion for Christ.

God does NOT "desire" cold. He desires cold, stone hard hearts to be won to Him, by us via His Holy Spirit. And because of that, there is hope for those cold, hard as stone hearts.

God's reaction to "lukewarm" is akin to Jesus reaction to that fig tree.

What did Jesus do to that ol' fig tree?
 
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DamianWarS

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God does NOT "desire" cold. He desires cold, stone hard hearts to be won to Him, by us via His Holy Spirit. And because of that, there is hope for those cold, hard as stone hearts.

God's reaction to "lukewarm" is akin to Jesus reaction to that fig tree.

What did Jesus do to that ol' fig tree?

Why are you interpreting cold = bad? Where does the text tell us cold is a non-believer? The text only tells us lukewarm is non desirable and hot and cold are desirable so why jump to this idea that cold = a person yet to be a believer and hot = a mature christian. Again where does the text say this? Where are you getting this information?

ps. you don't need to add a "prayer" remark to each of my posts, it's becoming condescending.
 
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brinny

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Why are you interpreting cold = bad? Where does the text tell us cold is a non-believer? The text only tells us lukewarm is non desirable and hot and cold are desirable so why jump to this idea that cold = a person yet to be a believer and hot = a mature christian. Again where does the text say this? Where are you getting this information?

ps. you don't need to add a "prayer" remark to each of my posts, it's becoming condescending.

"Cold" towards God is "good"?

Regarding prayers, i pray about ALL things. We are admonished to.

Amen, brother?
 
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Randy777

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Rev 3:16 for those who missed the memo.

When I read the text I see warm/cold water contrasted with lukewarm. Warm/cold being good and desirable and lukewarm being bad and undesirable.

What I don't see is the temperature of water a scale of our passion, cold being no belief, lukewarm wishy-washy and hot being "on fire for Jesus".

Do we really want to believe that God desires unbelief over the struggling Christian? What a horrible picture of God that reveals. Be perfect or don't come at all. Completely counter-gospel.

Luke warm- lack of concern, unconcern, disinterest, lack of interest, lack of enthusiasm, apathy, nonchalance, insouciance; More

COLD -against the gospel. Hate, unbelief , sarcastic

So they were neither Hot nor cold

Hot- you love God with all your heart

The two greatest commandments in these all the law is fullfiled
Israel was divided in theological outlook. Sadducee's vs Pharisee's
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Then Jesus tested their understanding
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42“What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.
43He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.” ’e
45If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
 
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RDKirk

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Rev 3:16 for those who missed the memo.

When I read the text I see warm/cold water contrasted with lukewarm. Warm/cold being good and desirable and lukewarm being bad and undesirable.

What I don't see is the temperature of water a scale of our passion, cold being no belief, lukewarm wishy-washy and hot being "on fire for Jesus".

Do we really want to believe that God desires unbelief over the struggling Christian? What a horrible picture of God that reveals. Be perfect or don't come at all. Completely counter-gospel.

No, that is wrong interpretation. Jesus would never breathe such a thing, particularly of people who are believers. I had the same issue with the teaching on that verse as you. Clearly Jesus was saying that cold and hot were both good, but lukewarm was not.

But this experience is what taught me what that verse really means:

Back in the early 70s, during the Vietnam war, I was assigned to a base in Thailand. As soon as I landed, my military sponsor took me to lunch "out in the 'ville," that is, to a local Thai eating establishment right outside the base.

We walked into the littler restaurant, which was empty at the moment. Because the restaurant catered to American GIs, they had a small buffet set up of slided bread and an assortment of sliced meats.

But my sponsor didn't go to the buffet, he went to a table where we sat and waited for service. And waited, and waited.

I started getting nervous and suggested we just go to the buffet.

He said, "Oh, noooo, noooo!"

I said, "Why not?"

"You don't know how long that foods been sitting out there. It might have been sitting out since Tuesday."

Then he leaned close to me and said: "Look, in countries like this, if the food is right off the fire, you can eat it. If the food is right off the ice, you can eat it. But if it's room temperature, spit it out! It will kill you!"

I understood the verses in Revelation in that moment.

People in the first century certainly knew the same thing. Everyone would be totally familiar with that concept. They knew that food could be kept edible bubbling in the pot. They knew they could keep food edible by keeping it in a jar in a flowing stream.

They also knew that food kept at "room temperature" (not yet knowing about "temperature" per se, calling it "lukewarm") would spoil quickly and become toxic.

Thus, "...since you were neither hot nor cold, I spat you out of my mouth."

The point Jesus is making here is the same point God has always made: "I want you to be a peculiar people." The point is not hot or cold per se, the point is to not be room temperature.

The world is room temperature. To be room temperature is to be like the world...and made toxic by the world.

A Christian may be seen as "cold" by the world when we don't get excited over the things that excite them. A Christian may be seen as "hot" to the world because get XOJ (excited over Jesus), which makes no sense to them.

But we are not supposed to be like the world.
 
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DamianWarS

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"Cold" towards God is "good"?

Regarding prayers, i pray about ALL things. We are admonished to.

Amen, brother?

you are directly interpreting cold as a negative behaviour yet the text doesn't make that leap. this is applying a bais over the text saying cold must equal bad without the text telling us to do this. Let's wash our preconceived ideas and simply see what the text tells us. The text tells us hot and cold are wanted and lukewarm is unwanted. Why this idea that cold is bad or is a negative behaviour toward God? I get cold can be used as a negative abstract but does the text do this? I like cold water, I like hot water and I don't like lukewarm. Is this not enough? why the need to fill in the blanks you think are there?

(thanks for the prayers)
 
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brinny

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you are directly interpreting cold as a negative behaviour yet the text doesn't make that leap. this is applying a bais over the text saying cold must equal bad without the text telling us to do this. Let's wash our preconceived ideas and simply see what the text tells us. The text tells us hot and cold are wanted and lukewarm is unwanted. Why this idea that cold is bad or is a negative behaviour toward God? I get cold can be used as a negative abstract but does the text do this? I like cold water, I like hot water and I don't like lukewarm. Is this not enough? why the need to fill in the blanks you think are there?

(thanks for the prayers)

A "cold" heart towards God is NOT a "good" thing. It is akin to a stony hard heart, which is in dire need of transformation, and which is spoken of in this verse:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." ~Ezekiel 36:26

And you are most welcome about the prayers. I welcome prayers as well, Brother.
 
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