What is Karaism?

[brentsbaby612]

Look what I found!
http://www.karaite-korner.org/main.shtml

This maybe interesting for those of you who do not observe the talmud.

The authentic Hebrew religion is that which is taught by the Creator Himself in the Hebrew Scriptures without addition or subtraction, as it is written: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of YHWH your God" (Deuteronomy 4:2).

I hope no body gets offend! I don't want any trouble. I just wanted to post this for the other half of messianic's.

 

[Henaynei]

yes, it is a good site with good info - for just about anybody Karaite or rabbinic

 

[iitb]

I have a lot of respect for Nehemia Gordon. I may not always agree with him, but he's a very knowledgeable man.

 

[The Thadman]

I have a lot of respect for Nehemia Gordon. I may not always agree with him, but he's a very knowledgeable man.

Same here. The biggest difference we really have is that he's convinced that Karaites cannot be Messianic, but I'm attempting to start some dialogue with him to clear up misconceptions, as well as put together a Messianic Karaite webpage to educate people about it.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[Henaynei]

Same here. The biggest difference we really have is that he's convinced that Karaites cannot be Messianic, but I'm attempting to start some dialogue with him to clear up misconceptions, as well as put together a Messianic Karaite webpage to educate people about it.

Peace!
-Steve-o

Now who woulda' guessed it'd be you???

 

[JewishHeart]

I consider myself more Kariate than Messianic...although I do respect some stances and teachings of rabis through the century, I would far from call them authoratative. I read the rabbinic sources ( Talmud) like a christian theology book or book about christian or messianic living, eat the meat -spit out bones.

 

[iitb]

Same here. The biggest difference we really have is that he's convinced that Karaites cannot be Messianic, but I'm attempting to start some dialogue with him to clear up misconceptions, as well as put together a Messianic Karaite webpage to educate people about it.

Peace!
-Steve-o

Well, he's also got Avi ben Mordechai hanging around with him lately, which really couldn't hurt your cause at all.

 

[iitb]

By the way, as far as links on Karism go, this one isn't half bad: http://www.orahsaddiqim.org/ . Be warned, though, that they do have an "anti-missionary" section.

 

[brentsbaby612]

Same here. The biggest difference we really have is that he's convinced that Karaites cannot be Messianic, but I'm attempting to start some dialogue with him to clear up misconceptions, as well as put together a Messianic Karaite webpage to educate people about it.

Peace!
-Steve-o
__________________

cool, I had no idea there were messianic karaites. I think if I had to pick a group to belong to, this would be it.

 

[Hix]

Karaites you will find are about 80% former christian, they are unable to let go of their sola scriptura beliefs that were engraved into them by the church. Mind you, while I have great respect for Nehemia Gordon and listen to him often, he like all karaites ends up creating hiw OWN halacha.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Henaynei]

Karaites you will find are about 80% former christian, they are unable to let go of their sola scriptura beliefs that were engraved into them by the church. Mind you, while I have great respect for Nehemia Gordon and listen to him often, he like all karaites ends up creating hiw OWN halacha.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

rightooo

 

[simchat_torah]

Yes... Hix has hit the nail on the perverbial head. I too respect Nehemiah Gordon, but there are a number of hypocrytical stances taken. Things such as they deny the creation of halacha, though it certainly exists in Karaite Judaism (eg: the DO have halacha, just don't admit it). More so, Nehemiah states that Halacha is certainly needed...but only when the Temple stands. I just can't see how that is justified to be honest. When G-d instituted Halacha, there was no temple. Even more so, He didn't qualify it at the he instituted halacha as, "this will only be done when there is a temple". To me, it simply doesn't add up.

Anywho...

I do, however, find a lot of problems with typical rabbinic halacha. Some of the rulings don't seem to make sense. Then again, I'm not asked by the Torah to understand it, just follow it. But we are given brains for a reason on the other hand...
As well, there sometimes exists the idea that halacha triumphs over the mitzvot. Granted, this is never taught, and is supposedly understood not to be the case... but some will actually carry this out as if it is true.

I do see halacha instituted in the Torah. G-d even states his Ruach would be with the Beit Din and would guide their decisions. To be honest, the messianics and kariates don't have much of an argument to excuse away halacha... but DO have a necessity to establish their own beit din (although they ignore this).

Finally, what Hix has stated is obivous. The majority of those who are Kariate are actually ex-christians. These christians don't see the beauty of the Rabbis and their contribution throughout time, and easily dismiss Rabbinic Judaism. Typically they come from very strong "sola-scriptura" backgrounds, and think very little of the Jews. In fact, most christians who lean towards Judaism end up feeling resentment towards the Rabbis (I have a few ideas on why this is). But the fact remains, the overwhelming majority of Kariate Judaism are ex-christians. Why this remains true, I'll leave up to you.

 

[iitb]

Finally, what Hix has stated is obivous. The majority of those who are Kariate are actually ex-christians. These christians don't see the beauty of the Rabbis and their contribution throughout time, and easily dismiss Rabbinic Judaism. Typically they come from very strong "sola-scriptura" backgrounds, and think very little of the Jews. In fact, most christians who lean towards Judaism end up feeling resentment towards the Rabbis (I have a few ideas on why this is). But the fact remains, the overwhelming majority of Kariate Judaism are ex-christians. Why this remains true, I'll leave up to you.

In the interest of fairness, and since he's been mentioned by name, I will point out that Nehemia Gordon is not an ex-Christian. His father is an Orthodox Rabbi(I think ), and Nehemia was studying to become a Rabbi when his study of the Oral Torah led him to believe that it contradicted the written Torah in a number of places...which eventually led him to Karaism.

I'm not saying I agree with all that, I just wanted to cut off a potential assumption.

 

[simchat_torah]

Yes, I did not include Nehemiah Gordon into that lump.

Simply put, he is one of the more famous Karaites around, and most look to him as the leader of the movement. Funny thing is, he is unaware that many of his adherants are either ex-christians or psuedo-messianics. Quite funny really.

 

[simchat_torah]

Like I said, I truly do respect Nehemiah. He's a very intelligent man. His knowledge of Hebrew blows me away. The thing is, I don't think he's perfect in his view....

A lot of his observations are right on, just his conclusions can be quite misleading.


but that's just me.

 

[iitb]

Funny thing is, he is unaware that many of his adherants are either ex-christians or psuedo-messianics. Quite funny really.

Well, considering that he tours on occassion with Michael Rood, and has a book coming out on the subject of Moses' seat and Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew, I'd say he's more aware than most realize.

 

[simchat_torah]

I know of many on PalTalk (and other internet venues) where some of the Karaite leaders (self proclaimed mind you) are hidden messianics who came from christianity. A good example of this is a guy on paltalk named Simchat Torah. He teaches Hebrew and is a Karaite. He's actually a messianic, but won't admit it publically. Many have confused us, because my name on paltalk is simchat_torah (note the underscore and all lowercase letters).

Anywho... more later.
yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

oops i meant to say that i consider myself more kariate than rabbinic, not messianic hahaha

anyways.. i do see the need for a messianic beit din ( I would not follow a beit din that did not believe in their messiah, because if they missed the messiah ...what else could they miss in torah)

 

[simchat_torah]

anyways.. i do see the need for a messianic beit din ( I would not follow a beit din that did not believe in their messiah, because if they missed the messiah ...what else could they miss in torah)

Funny thing is that the early believers didn't seem to have a problem with it. Nor did Y'shua. The creation of the messianic beit din came later (interestingly).

The above, could aslo be taken as very anti-Jew. Jews for Jesus and the Nazis both made similar statements. I find it offensive, but that's just me.

 

[The Thadman]

Karaites you will find are about 80% former christian, they are unable to let go of their sola scriptura beliefs that were engraved into them by the church.

Where'd you get those statistics m'friend? The official Karaite movement denies anything that even mentions the name "Jesus," are you saying that these are Jewish converts from Christianity? The only Messianic Karaites that exist are an unofficial movement, like myself and my friends.

Mind you, while I have great respect for Nehemia Gordon and listen to him often, he like all karaites ends up creating his OWN halacha.

And most of us reject the very notion of halacha.

Peace!
-Steve-o