What is it about non-denominations that Lutherans warn against?

[Tangible]

I'm not saying that you're wrong, nor am I saying that you have to falsely admit to being wrong. What I am saying is that by telling someone that they are wrong, it shuts that person out as they will automatically go on the defensive. Phrases such as "if you choose to believe that, " and "X million Lutherans believe" are going to have a greater chance for achieving the desired effect rather than "you're wrong and here's why."

Does that make sense? Am I coming across clearly?

A theologian of the cross calls a thing what it is. I don't see Christ or the apostles couching their words in affirming tolerance-speech. Which way is more Christ-like?

Another major difference between NDs and Lutherans is that we don't go in for seeker-sensitive and psychology-syncretism.

 

[LilLamb219]

There is something I would like to add concerning right/wrong and how we deal with things.

In a Lutheran forum such as this, of course we are going to say we are right and others are wrong. If we thought others were right, well, we wouldn't be here.

If this were an entirely different type of forum, I tell you this, I rarely see any Lutherans blasting out to people, "YOU'RE WRONG!" We will just show how that person is wrong through scripture.

 

[TheMightyTurtle]

There is something I would like to add concerning right/wrong and how we deal with things.

In a Lutheran forum such as this, of course we are going to say we are right and others are wrong. If we thought others were right, well, we wouldn't be here.

If this were an entirely different type of forum, I tell you this, I rarely see any Lutherans blasting out to people, "YOU'RE WRONG!" We will just show how that person is wrong through scripture.

In my "dealings" with this message board, I would tend to disagree with the last part. It was only when I was able to PM a few posters, that the conversation(s) became less threatening and more civil.

 

[LilLamb219]

In my "dealings" with this message board, I would tend to disagree with the last part. It was only when I was able to PM a few posters, that the conversation(s) became less threatening and more civil.

This message board? Are you referring to Theologia Crucis-Lutherans or Christian Forums in general?

 

[tobethebest]

Our mother sent us to a Luthern Church when we were teenagers, it required that we take a bus to and from. When coming home there was a Free Methodist Church near home that we would enter right after getting off the bus and it was almost right on time for church services. Luthern church was boring, very boring......What we liked about the Methodists was the pastors ability to speak openly with expression, where the minister of the Luthern church was putting so many of us to sleep. We liked that there was a call to come forward at the end of the service and we were always there hoping for a better, more stable family environment. Alcohol had its grips on our step mother and her bouts with it were insane, so we clung to the hope that Christ would intervene and bring about change.......In our twenties we leaned toward the "Jesus movement" as young hippy types, carrying our large bibles behind our backs, tucked into our belt. We ushered for Kathryn Kuhlman and experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit in one particular meeting. Like the bible says "the wind of the Spirit of God" was so amazing. I wanted Him to take me wherever He went.

 

[Aibrean]

Church isn't meant to entertain you.

 

[LilLamb219]

Our mother sent us to a Luthern Church when we were teenagers, it required that we take a bus to and from. When coming home there was a Free Methodist Church near home that we would enter right after getting off the bus and it was almost right on time for church services. Luthern church was boring, very boring......What we liked about the Methodists was the pastors ability to speak openly with expression, where the minister of the Luthern church was putting so many of us to sleep. We liked that there was a call to come forward at the end of the service and we were always there hoping for a better, more stable family environment. Alcohol had its grips on our step mother and her bouts with it were insane, so we clung to the hope that Christ would intervene and bring about change.......In our twenties we leaned toward the "Jesus movement" as young hippy types, carrying our large bibles behind our backs, tucked into our belt. We ushered for Kathryn Kuhlman and experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit in one particular meeting. Like the bible says "the wind of the Spirit of God" was so amazing. I wanted Him to take me wherever He went.

You enjoyed a call to go forward? To do what? Lutherans don't do altar calls for a very good reason; our focus is on Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins. It's not dependent on our decision (John 15:16) and why should we celebrate what we do for him when instead we should be thankful for what He has done for us?

 

[tobethebest]

You enjoyed a call to go forward? To do what? Lutherans don't do altar calls for a very good reason; our focus is on Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins. It's not dependent on our decision (John 15:16) and why should we celebrate what we do for him when instead we should be thankful for what He has done for us?

In response to this I would like to ask if you had ever experienced God's presence in a physical way? In Acts they were all gathered together waiting for Jesus to arrive and when He did there was a definite physical experience. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the "demonstration of the power of God." It speaks of the Holy Spirit as a "rushing mighty wind." Did you experience anything when you gave your life to Christ? Did you know deep down that your sins were forgiven? Have you ever been one on one with an individual and "witnessed" the saving grace of Christ and that person prayed by "confessing with his mouth and believing that Christ was raised from the dead and that his sins were forgiven?" What does it mean to "evangelize" as you see it. Billy Graham called thousands of people to come forward to give their lives to Christ. It is an awesome moment when someone changes the course of their life simply by hearing your witness to the saving grace of Christ. Where does prayer fit in when nothing is dependent on our decision to follow Christ? Being thankful is more than saying grace at the dinner table, it is getting alone with the Lord and celebrating our new birth, thanking Him and offering up a sacrifice of praise that is holy and acceptable to God. God doesn't want folks to bury their treasures, but to offer them freely to others. There are three separate baptisms; one of blood, one of water and one of the Spirit and these are all separate experiences. So much of the Bible is threefold; the threefold man, body, soul, and spirit. The threefold Godhead; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the process of salvation is justification, sanctification and glorification. How can someone not celebrate the truth of God's word?

 

[alexnbethmom]

 

[Moses Medina]

Alex, for some reason I can't see the picture or link you posted, I think it's blocked on these computers, can you explain what your reply was? I'm just curious because I've been following this discussion and I think tobethebest brought up a very good point that I grew up with.

 

[alexnbethmom]

dario, i think it's cos you don't have 50 posts yet - it was an icon of two smileys eating popcorn....

 

[Moses Medina]

Lol

 

[LilLamb219]

My faith does not rely on any experience.

Faith grasps onto what is true...and that is that Jesus the Christ died on the cross in my substitute for the forgiveness of my sins. There is no doubt that my sins are forgiven because Jesus died for me and in my place. He said It Is Finished and I believe that. To doubt God on this would be offensive to him.

When we talk about Christianity...let's talk about Jesus. Not me. Not my experiences. Not what I think I'm doing for Him. Not my gifts. Let's talk about the real truth of why we are Christians...sin and forgiveness.

Scriptures also state that there is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. If you would like, I can list later all the baptismal scriptural references for you.

You enjoyed a call to go forward? To do what? Lutherans don't do altar calls for a very good reason; our focus is on Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins. It's not dependent on our decision (John 15:16) and why should we celebrate what we do for him when instead we should be thankful for what He has done for us?

In response to this I would like to ask if you had ever experienced God's presence in a physical way? In Acts they were all gathered together waiting for Jesus to arrive and when He did there was a definite physical experience. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the "demonstration of the power of God." It speaks of the Holy Spirit as a "rushing mighty wind." Did you experience anything when you gave your life to Christ? Did you know deep down that your sins were forgiven? Have you ever been one on one with an individual and "witnessed" the saving grace of Christ and that person prayed by "confessing with his mouth and believing that Christ was raised from the dead and that his sins were forgiven?" What does it mean to "evangelize" as you see it. Billy Graham called thousands of people to come forward to give their lives to Christ. It is an awesome moment when someone changes the course of their life simply by hearing your witness to the saving grace of Christ. Where does prayer fit in when nothing is dependent on our decision to follow Christ? Being thankful is more than saying grace at the dinner table, it is getting alone with the Lord and celebrating our new birth, thanking Him and offering up a sacrifice of praise that is holy and acceptable to God. God doesn't want folks to bury their treasures, but to offer them freely to others. There are three separate baptisms; one of blood, one of water and one of the Spirit and these are all separate experiences. So much of the Bible is threefold; the threefold man, body, soul, and spirit. The threefold Godhead; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the process of salvation is justification, sanctification and glorification. How can someone not celebrate the truth of God's word?

 

[DaRev]

In response to this I would like to ask if you had ever experienced God's presence in a physical way? In Acts they were all gathered together waiting for Jesus to arrive and when He did there was a definite physical experience. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the "demonstration of the power of God." It speaks of the Holy Spirit as a "rushing mighty wind." Did you experience anything when you gave your life to Christ? Did you know deep down that your sins were forgiven? Have you ever been one on one with an individual and "witnessed" the saving grace of Christ and that person prayed by "confessing with his mouth and believing that Christ was raised from the dead and that his sins were forgiven?" What does it mean to "evangelize" as you see it. Billy Graham called thousands of people to come forward to give their lives to Christ. It is an awesome moment when someone changes the course of their life simply by hearing your witness to the saving grace of Christ. Where does prayer fit in when nothing is dependent on our decision to follow Christ? Being thankful is more than saying grace at the dinner table, it is getting alone with the Lord and celebrating our new birth, thanking Him and offering up a sacrifice of praise that is holy and acceptable to God. God doesn't want folks to bury their treasures, but to offer them freely to others. There are three separate baptisms; one of blood, one of water and one of the Spirit and these are all separate experiences. So much of the Bible is threefold; the threefold man, body, soul, and spirit. The threefold Godhead; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the process of salvation is justification, sanctification and glorification. How can someone not celebrate the truth of God's word?

Much of what you have written here is Biblically inaccurate. In order to "celebrate the truth of God's word", one must first know what God's word actually says.

God's word teaches that we are saved by grace through faith on account of the works and merits of Christ alone. It is by His doing and His doing alone. We cannot and do not contribute to our justification (salvation) whatsoever. It is God's work alone through Christ. What we "do" is in response/reaction to what God has done through Christ. We do what we do because we have already been saved. Salvation is not a process, it's a one time act done by Christ by way of the cross and empty tomb. My salvation is not dependent on what I do. If it were, I would have absolutely no assurance that my sins were forgiven. Thankfully, my salvation has been accomplished by Christ alone on my behalf, and I am assured that I am forgiven because His word says so. I also experience Christ's physical presence every Sunday in the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, right where He says He is. I experienced His presence in my one Baptism (Eph. 4:5), and I experience His presence in His word, right where He said He would be. And I did not choose Jesus because my sinful nature prohibits it. Rather, He chose me, forgave my sins, and saved me from an eternity in hell. I played no part in that. I didn't have to say a special prayer or answer some altar call or perform some act to prove His presence. My part is passive, I acknowledge my God-given faith and give thanks to Him for my salvation. This is the good news of the Gospel. And this is what we share with others.

Again, one needs to know what God's word actually teaches in order to celebrate the truth of it.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

ND churches vary greatly. I'm reading a lot of preconceived misconceptions here. This attitude of we're (Lutherans) right and they're (everyone else) wrong could use a shift towards we believe this, and they believe that.

And that's fine. By saying we're right and you're wrong, it shows a lack of respect for another's views, and in turn that person, as well as prevents any kind of intelligent conversation right there.

But when two teachings contradict each other, one of them HAS to be wrong. We try to educate people to what the Scriptures actually teach. That way, we can all be right.

As has been pointed out, there's not gray area to scripture. A doctrine is either right or wrong. Communion is either symbolic or not. Baptism is either symbolic or not. If Jesus said "no one comes to the Father save through Me", then a church can't have a doctrine that there are other means to the Father (a belief that several of the non-denoms I've been to have expressed). 2+2 can NEVER equal 5.

One point that I would to stress on a HUGE level is that I did not give my life to Christ. Christ gave His life for me. He loves ME, a poor and miserable sinner. And that is the message that is preached at my boring old Lutheran church.

 

[alexnbethmom]

As has been pointed out, there's not gray area to scripture. A doctrine is either right or wrong. Communion is either symbolic or not. Baptism is either symbolic or not. If Jesus said "no one comes to the Father save through Me", then a church can't have a doctrine that there are other means to the Father (a belief that several of the non-denoms I've been to have expressed). 2+2 can NEVER equal 5.

One point that I would to stress on a HUGE level is that I did not give my life to Christ. Christ gave His life for me. He loves ME, a poor and miserable sinner. And that is the message that is preached at my boring old Lutheran church.

absolutely 2000% correct!!!!

 

[Shane R]

The non-denom perspective is often the faith of Thomas: unless I SEE (or experience in their case) I will not believe (or I will not know). Of this Jesus said, "Those who believe without seeing are blessed." The apostle Paul worded it like this, "For we walk by faith, not by sight".

 

[Tangible]

What's interesting to me is that since becoming a Lutheran my experience of the divine is much more real to me than the mystical experiences I had as an Evangelical. You might even say that to me, God is now ... well, tangible.

 

[alexnbethmom]

What's interesting to me is that since becoming a Lutheran my experience of the divine is much more real to me than the mystical experiences I had as an Evangelical. You might even say that to me, God is now ... well, tangible.

and again, i say !! that is absolutely true for me as well....

 

[ricker]

As has been pointed out, there's not gray area to scripture. A doctrine is either right or wrong. Communion is either symbolic or not. Baptism is either symbolic or not. If Jesus said "no one comes to the Father save through Me", then a church can't have a doctrine that there are other means to the Father (a belief that several of the non-denoms I've been to have expressed). 2+2 can NEVER equal 5.

One point that I would to stress on a HUGE level is that I did not give my life to Christ. Christ gave His life for me. He loves ME, a poor and miserable sinner. And that is the message that is preached at my boring old Lutheran church.

What does this say to you? Mark 9

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

I dislike the partison bickering I see so often in Christianity, and yes, I am an ELCA'er.