What is it about forgiveness?

[LilLamb219]

What is it about forgiveness that a lot of denominations are afraid to talk about it????

I have such a gripe about this.

Time and time again I either read, hear or see other people from other denoms who speak about the Gospel, how you need the Gospel and need to preach the Gospel, you gotta have Jesus, etc, but NEVER once mention the word forgive or forgiveness. Why is that? Why is it taboo?

Are they afraid? Are they unsure?

What is it?

 

[Plutonius]

Im really not sure, another reason I left mainline protestant. It seems as though they only teach the "personal savior" type of salvation. "Accept Jesus into your heart and you are saved". Its not biblical for one, and it points to you not Jesus as the sole giver of grace and salvaton. John 15:16 (NIV) "You did not choose Me, but I chose you..."

That being said, they really don`t apparently think forgiveness is necessarily. When I was at my old church, they never talked about it at ALL. I really do not know, it all possible explanation, why they never talk about it. I guess we would have to bring a non-denominational person in here and explain it to us.

 

[LilLamb219]

Great post. I'd rep you, but I need to pass around more reputations before I can rep you again

I'm on other boards and right now I'm noticing it on a new place I've joined and it's completely aggravating. I've even questioned it in quite a few threads I've posted there We'll see if I get kicked off that board soon enough LOL Won't be the first time someone doesn't like to hear biblical truth on a Christian board!

 

[Plutonius]

Great post. I'd rep you, but I need to pass around more reputations before I can rep you again

I'm on other boards and right now I'm noticing it on a new place I've joined and it's completely aggravating. I've even questioned it in quite a few threads I've posted there We'll see if I get kicked off that board soon enough LOL Won't be the first time someone doesn't like to hear biblical truth on a Christian board!

Could you not post such thread in the debate forum, I think it would extremely interesting to see a biblical defense for such thought, not like it exists in the first place

You have no idea how many debates and discussions I get into at university, and with my mother, regarding this "Personal savior" type dealy. Wasn`t that term first coined by A.W. Tozer? I know it is relatively new.

 

[DaRev]

What is it about forgiveness that a lot of denominations are afraid to talk about it????

I have such a gripe about this.

Time and time again I either read, hear or see other people from other denoms who speak about the Gospel, how you need the Gospel and need to preach the Gospel, you gotta have Jesus, etc, but NEVER once mention the word forgive or forgiveness. Why is that? Why is it taboo?

Are they afraid? Are they unsure?

What is it?

Because if they talk about forgiveness, that means they would have to talk about sin and talking about sin is such a bummer and a downer.

"Why would we want to preach on something so negative like sin? God is love!"



Such talk makes my skin crawl.

 

[Plutonius]

Because if they talk about forgiveness, that means they would have to talk about sin and talking about sin is such a bummer and a downer.

"Why would we want to preach on something so negative like sin? God is love!"



Such talk makes my skin crawl.

God is love but he HATES sin , and sin separates us from God. To ignore the consequences of sin ,and not repent, is to ignore God.

 

[LilLamb219]

It's a good suggestion to post in the debate forum, but I don't have a time to devote to something like that...and I can sometimes be a thread babysitter when it comes to topics like that LOL

 

[LilLamb219]

Side topic that's kind of relevant to this...

Is anyone else a member of HisHolySpace.com? It's like a MySpace for Christians.

It's related to this topic because this is a place recently that I'm coming across a lot of people who never speak about forgiveness.

If you're on there, PM me ok? I'd like to talk.

 

[seajoy]

.

 

[Plutonius]

And Jesus did not die just for me, thats what I think about personal, HE DIED FOR EVERYONE!

 

[Plutonius]

This is kinda weird, but I was looking at what the sermon will be about on Sunday at my church. Guess what it is going to be about, Forgiveness!

 

[porterross]

This is kinda weird, but I was looking at what the sermon will be about on Sunday at my church. Guess what it is going to be about, Forgiveness!

Good! We all need it....constantly!!!!
It's why we hold to being confessional so firmly. I love receiving absolution, but I feel it most during communion. God holds me so firmly at that moment it moves me to tears and I have a hard time holding back, until later.

 

[Edial]

What is it about forgiveness that a lot of denominations are afraid to talk about it????

I have such a gripe about this.

Time and time again I either read, hear or see other people from other denoms who speak about the Gospel, how you need the Gospel and need to preach the Gospel, you gotta have Jesus, etc, but NEVER once mention the word forgive or forgiveness. Why is that? Why is it taboo?

Are they afraid? Are they unsure?

What is it?

I think they are unsure ... and a little afraid.

I found that many Baptists put an emphasys on Scriptural knowledge.
And they are very good in that.

However, such an environment (Bible knowledge) often attracts a certain "types" of people that simply like knowledge, any knowledge.

And such "types" often become teachers in Baptist churches.

Yet, they are sometimes afraid to "think" with one's heart.

They'll quickly put up a shield -

JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Yet with one's heart one believes in Christ ...

RO 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."


Matthew 18:23-35 ends like this ...

MT 18:35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

In it's text Christ presents that hypocritical unforgiveness is a matter of the conditioning of the heart.

That Matthew text was never addressed (from what I remember) in the Baptist studies.

Head knowledge often gives a sense of false security.

A number of Baptists are sometimes confused by a knowledge that supposed to give them security, while the text is pounding that one must love each other and forgive, as a true test on knowing God.

That is why (in my opinion) Calvinism prospers in some of the Baptist churches - God elected ME despite of what I do. (They do not actually say that, but one does get that flavor).

Head knowledge (any head knowledge) often compliments one's ego.
Yet the heart knowledge is supposed to dilute that effect.

That is why I could not really understand John's epistles (a very easy read!) while starting off in a Baptist church.

This was my conflict concerning Epistles of John ...

That very JOHN whom Christ loved and that very JOHN that wrote the Revelation ITSELF!, instead of expounding of deep theological matters at the twilight of his life ... wrote the Epistles and the everwhelming message was ...

1JN 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

JOHN, tell me about THEOLOGY!
What is this Sunday School stuff about love!

1JN 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

John won, I lost.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[LilLamb219]

Plutonius! That totally rocks that the sermon is about forgiveness!!! Awesome

Well, no wonder Jesus wants us to go and spread the Gospel, because TOO many people don't even know what the truth of the Gospel is! Even amongst Christians it's hazy. That's scary to me, yet it makes me really glad that we have the internet to help spread the word about Forgiveness! The forgiveness won at the cross for ALL.

We absolutely need more Lutherans online guys LOL

 

[DaRev]

And Jesus did not die just for me, thats what I think about personal, HE DIED FOR EVERYONE!

But there are times when we need to hear that "Jesus died for me." Our Christian faith is both personal and collective at the same time. We need to know we have a personal relationship with Him, and we need to know that we are part of a larger Body with whom we share this wonderful faith. It's when we forget one over the other, or emphasize one over the other that we get into trouble.

 

[DaRev]

I think they are unsure ... and a little afraid.

I found that many Baptists put an emphasys on Scriptural knowledge.
And they are very good in that.

However, such an environment (Bible knowledge) often attracts a certain "types" of people that simply like knowledge, any knowledge.

And such "types" often become teachers in Baptist churches.

Yet, they are sometimes afraid to "think" with one's heart.

They'll quickly put up a shield -

JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Yet with one's heart one believes in Christ ...

RO 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."


Matthew 18:23-35 ends like this ...

MT 18:35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

In it's text Christ presents that hypocritical unforgiveness is a matter of the conditioning of the heart.

That Matthew text was never addressed (from what I remember) in the Baptist studies.

Head knowledge often gives a sense of false security.

A number of Baptists are sometimes confused by a knowledge that supposed to give them security, while the text is pounding that one must love each other and forgive, as a true test on knowing God.

That is why (in my opinion) Calvinism prospers in some of the Baptist churches - God elected ME despite of what I do. (They do not actually say that, but one does get that flavor).

Head knowledge (any head knowledge) often compliments one's ego.
Yet the heart knowledge is supposed to dilute that effect.

That is why I could not really understand John's epistles (a very easy read!) while starting off in a Baptist church.

This was my conflict concerning Epistles of John ...

That very JOHN whom Christ loved and that very JOHN that wrote the Revelation ITSELF!, instead of expounding of deep theological matters at the twilight of his life ... wrote the Epistles and the everwhelming message was ...

1JN 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

JOHN, tell me about THEOLOGY!
What is this Sunday School stuff about love!

1JN 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

John won, I lost.

This is one of the things that gets me about Baptist theology. They put so much emphasis on works. One has to decide to believe, one has to decide to be baptized, etc. Yet they both bring up Jeremiah 17:9 AND deny the work of the Spirit in the heart, the work that brings us to faith, that brings us to baptism.

Is the heart good for one thing and not for another?

 

[porterross]

This is one of the things that gets me about Baptist theology. They put so much emphasis on works. One has to decide to believe, one has to decide to be baptized, etc. Yet they both bring up Jeremiah 17:9 AND deny the work of the Spirit in the heart, the work that brings us to faith, that brings us to baptism.

Is the heart good for one thing and not for another?

Hello, full embrace of the Holy Spirit!

I know this never happens for many Christians and I do feel deep sorrow for them. These tangential Christians are on the outside still looking in, but they either don't realize it or know how to admit it.

 

[LilLamb219]

How much more personal can it get than God baptizing me in His name or giving me His body and blood every week during the Divine Service?

 

[Edial]

This is one of the things that gets me about Baptist theology. They put so much emphasis on works. One has to decide to believe, one has to decide to be baptized, etc. Yet they both bring up Jeremiah 17:9 AND deny the work of the Spirit in the heart, the work that brings us to faith, that brings us to baptism.

Is the heart good for one thing and not for another?

Actually it is not that they emphasize works, it is just they are trapped in an intellectualized theology.

It is an approach that oftens negates that what is hard to understand, as symbolic.

I think that in a context of non-Traditional churches, "works" is a trap, not a teaching, since they all teach "it is not by works ..."

And I also think that a true and sincere application of the love of God in our lives will keep such traps farther away.

I find Lutheranism a balanced religion by it's very design.
I like it. It is easy to "navigate" where mind and heart are equally active.
Belief in a Communion as an example, where Natural and Supernatural co-exist without taking any of it's individual attributes away, hones one into a more complete and richer understanding of Christianity.

But I also think that we have a tendency of falling into some sort of "works" theology ourselves (in practice, not letter), once we forget the basics of what Christ stressed - his two Commandments.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[QuiltAngel]

I wonder if the "sinner's prayer" has something to do with this. Once you pray that and that you are a sinner and asked God to save you, you don't have to confess sins and ask forgiveness?

We know that is not the way it is. Well, that is my thought on this.