What is ID?

[Colter]

Well said. So admitting that it can't be verified or proven, how convinced are you that it is true?

I'm satisfied as the spirit is something that I continue to experience since the day of my spiritual birthday. It can only be experienced and that only requires the faintest flicker of faith. Faith then is a grace gift that bridges the finite with the infinite.

Its important to first understand that people of faith in God, inside or outside of any religion, did not arrive at their faith by logical deduction. They didn't follow a logic path that can be retraced in explanation for the unbeliever like a mathematical formula.

more better words from my inspirational source:

"Never can there be either scientific or logical proofs of divinity. Reason alone can never validate the values and goodnesses of religious experience. But it will always remain true: Whosoever wills to do the will of God shall comprehend the validity of spiritual values. This is the nearest approach that can be made on the mortal level to offering proofs of the reality of religious experience. Such faith affords the only escape from the mechanical clutch of the material world and from the error distortion of the incompleteness of the intellectual world; it is the only discovered solution to the impasse in mortal thinking regarding the continuing survival of the individual personality. It is the only passport to completion of reality and to eternity of life in a universal creation of love, law, unity, and progressive Deity attainment.

Religion effectually cures man's sense of idealistic isolation or spiritual loneliness; it enfranchises the believer as a son of God, a citizen of a new and meaningful universe. Religion assures man that, in following the gleam of righteousness discernible in his soul, he is thereby identifying himself with the plan of the Infinite and the purpose of the Eternal. Such a liberated soul immediately begins to feel at home in this new universe, his universe.

When you experience such a transformation of faith, you are no longer a slavish part of the mathematical cosmos but rather a liberated volitional son of the Universal Father. No longer is such a liberated son fighting alone against the inexorable doom of the termination of temporal existence; no longer does he combat all nature, with the odds hopelessly against him; no longer is he staggered by the paralyzing fear that, perchance, he has put his trust in a hopeless phantasm or pinned his faith to a fanciful error." UB 1955

 

[Colter]

If your brain is just hardware receiving the radio signals from the true self, and there are many brains out there each tuned to receive signals from the unique self that actuates it, how do you know your brain is receiving signals from the correct source?

What would happen if my brain started receiving the signals from your source?

My understanding is that we already utilize the adjutant mind spirits in the minds on loan to us.

"The seven adjutants have been given the following names: the spirit of wisdom, the spirit of worship, the spirit of counsel, the spirit of knowledge, the spirit of courage, the spirit of understanding, the spirit of intuition—of quick perception."

These spirits are pre-personal (without personality) so we are not conscious of them as something apart from our own conscious minds.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you think a mind can exist without a brain?

Yes.

In tripartitism,* the mind is part of the soul, whereas the brain is part of the body.

* Man is made up of body, soul, and spirit.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'm satisfied as the spirit is something that I continue to experience since the day of my spiritual birthday. It can only be experienced and that only requires the faintest flicker of faith. Faith then is a grace gift that bridges the finite with the infinite.

Its important to first understand that people of faith in God, inside or outside of any religion, did not arrive at their faith by logical deduction. They didn't follow a logic path that can be retraced in explanation for the unbeliever like a mathematical formula.

I wonder if we could then agree to call faith an illogical path to belief?

 

[Colter]

I wonder if we could then agree to call faith an illogical path to belief?

Faith, enhanced by revelation, is the only path to belief in Absolutes by finites.

"Logic is the technique of philosophy, its method of expression. Within the domain of true science, reason is always amenable to genuine logic; within the domain of true religion, faith is always logical from the basis of an inner viewpoint, even though such faith may appear to be quite unfounded from the inlooking viewpoint of the scientific approach. From outward, looking within, the universe may appear to be material; from within, looking out, the same universe appears to be wholly spiritual. Reason grows out of material awareness, faith out of spiritual awareness, but through the mediation of a philosophy strengthened by revelation, logic may confirm both the inward and the outward view, thereby effecting the stabilization of both science and religion. Thus, through common contact with the logic of philosophy, may both science and religion become increasingly tolerant of each other, less and less skeptical." UB 1955

 

[Jordan Mays]

* Man is made up of body, soul, and spirit.

Only one of which is known to positively exist the other two are nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[xianghua]

If all life lived at the same time, and you find 1000 fossils of what we know as Cambrian life and 1000 fossils of modern species, what are the odds that all 1000 fossils of Cambrian life are found in Cambrian layers, and all 1000 fossils of modern species are found in the Cenozoic by chance? The odds of that happening by chance are about 1 in ten to the 18th power.

maybe yes and maybe no. there are several factors that we need to involve. for instance: birds fossils are rare compare with other kinds of fossils. marine fossils from the other hand are more common.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's why I used the analogy cellphone and signal, we know that the 2 cant function independently of each other.

The spontaneous emergence of life from lifeless matter would have to be the logical default position in a Godless universe.

We aren't talking about the origins of life here.

In my theology when earth had evolved to the point wherein it could sustain "life" the Life Carriers

the "life carriers"?

Science has now captured the moment when this "spark of life" is transmitted in the fertilization of the egg.

That comes from the inside, not from the outside.

 

[doubtingmerle]

maybe yes and maybe no. there are several factors that we need to involve. for instance: birds fossils are rare compare with other kinds of fossils.

Mammal fossils are not rare. We have found thousands of fossils of mammal fossil, all above the K-Pg boundary. The K-Pg boundary is a unique thin band of rock found somewhere around 66.043 million years ago (give or take 0.011 million). Why is it that no fossil of a modern mammal species is found below that layer, and no classic dinosaur fossil is found above that layer? See Cretaceous–Paleogene boundary - Wikipedia Obvious, the reason is not that mammals are rare. You have no answer other than claiming dumb luck, do you?

marine fossils from the other hand are more common.

Cambrian life is marine life, but it is not found at all above the K-Pg boundary (or even close). How can we find thousands of Trilobites far below the K-Pg boundary, but none above?

The odds that this would all happen by chance is astronomical. Even back in the 19th century Creationists knew that Cambrian life was different from modern life, and was very long ago. And yet somehow I cannot get you to even recognize this fact that has been known for almost 200 years.

Dolphins are marine life that share the same habitat as tunas. And yet you will find many fish similar to modern tuna below the K-Pg boundary, but never anything close to a dolphin. Why not?

 

[xianghua]

Why is it that no fossil of a modern mammal species is found below that layer, and no classic dinosaur fossil is found above that layer? See Cretaceous–Paleogene boundary - Wikipedia Obvious, the reason is not that mammals are rare. You have no answer other than claiming dumb luck, do you?

as i said: it may be evidence that those are a different creation events. but also remember that till 2010 all tetrapods fossils date no more then 375my. till we found one date about 400.

"Cambrian life is marine life, but it is not found at all above the K-Pg boundary (or even close). How can we find thousands of Trilobites far below the K-Pg boundary, but none above?"-

see above. and again: we can say the same for the coelacanth fish.

Dolphins are marine life that share the same habitat as tunas. And yet you will find many fish similar to modern tuna below the K-Pg boundary, but never anything close to a dolphin. Why not?

Ichthyosaur isnt similar to a dolphin? yep, its a marine reptile. but they still share a lot in common.

 

[Jordan Mays]

as i said: it may be evidence that those are a different creation events. but also remember that till 2010 all tetrapods fossils date no more then 375my. till we found one date about 400.

That's right science changes everytime we learn something new, would you rather it didn't? if it didn't then you and I would more than likely not be alive today.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's right science changes everytime we learn something new, would you rather is didn't? if it didn't then you and I would more than likely not be alive today.

If there's so much to learn, then why do they make flippant statements like, "Noah's flood wasn't global"?

I like to tell these ... people ... "keep looking."

If someone believes in the scientific method to the exclusion of anything else, then in my opinion, they are being ... well ... ironic if they tell me Humpty Dumpty is just a fairy tale and nothing more.

If you're a scientist:

Don't tell me the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me UFO's don't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me ESP doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me Zeus doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me God doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me Shiva, Quetzacoatl, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, the boogey man, Big Foot, Yeti, WKRP in Cincinnati, my mother the car, Mr. Ed, or Harvey don't exist.

You gave up your rights to dictate to us what exists and doesn't exist when you became a disciple of the scientific method.

We've had years of scientists telling us Thalidomide is a prenatal wonder drug, Pluto is our 9th planet, Nebraska men roamed the area at one time, atoms are indivisible, air has no weight, we got our moon some six-to-ten different ways, Jesus doesn't exist, the Jews are pagan nomads who invaded Palestine, cud-chewing rabbits are mentioned in the Bible, the solar system revolves around the Earth, the universe revolves around the Earth, epicycles, Phlogiston, bad seeds, Lamarckism, master races, grand canyons forged by rivers, deep time, moving decimal points, readjusted time, readjusted theories, readjusted facts, readjusted figures, readjusted hypotheses, readjusted speculations, corrected memos, corrected mistakes, corrected remarks, corrected teachings ... and for the record ... how do you know it's correct now or not?

Anyway the list goes on and on and on.

For every good thing scientists have given us, they've left at least a thousand mistakes behind: including graves, horribly-deformed children, lakes full of chemicals, air full of chemicals (that they now blame on us common people), people hooked on drugs forged in laboratories, or genocided by gas forged in laboratories, drilling in the Gulf of Mexico for water, and on and on and on.

Scientists eat up the ozone layer of the Earth, then sell us sunscreen to protect ourselves.

So you're right, science changes everytime [sic] we learn something new: but that's because we're so ignorant in the first place, we have to call ourselves "wise men" just to give ourselves a false sense of importance, while we're on the food chain.

We go nuts with joy when we find a way to extend the average life expectancy by one or two years, while those who lived for hundreds and hundreds of years would probably be shaking their heads in disbelief at us.

End of Rant for Now

 

[Jordan Mays]

If someone believes in the scientific method to the exclusion of anything else, then in my opinion, they are being ... well ... ironic if they tell me Humpty Dumpty is just a fairy tale and nothing more.

Humpty Dumpty is as much a fairy tale as the resurrection of a dead person is.

We've had years of scientists telling us Thalidomide is a prenatal wonder drug,

It is a wonder drug if it's used in the right way.

For every good thing scientists have given us,

If it wasn't for science you and I would likey not be alive today.

Scientists eat up the ozone layer of the Earth,

Scientists are trying to stop the Ozone layer from disappearing

So you're right, science changes everytime [sic] we learn something new: but that's because we're so ignorant in the first place,

What do you suggest we do pray like a JW praying for a child to recover when it should really be in hospital?

We go nuts with joy when we find a way to extend the average life expectancy by one or two years,

It's the only life we know we are going to get that's why.... when it's gone it's gone.

while those who lived for hundreds and hundreds of years would probably be shaking their heads in disbelief at us.

No one has ever lived for hundreds of years so why you choose to believe that they have is beyond me, it's just a story written in an old book and it's not true.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jordan, do you mind fixing your quote tags please?

We call it proofreading, and I would think those who preach education would practice it.

 

[Skreeper]

If you're a scientist:

Don't tell me the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me UFO's don't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me ESP doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me Zeus doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Don't tell me God doesn't exist ... keep looking.

Have you never heard of the null hypothesis?

We start with not believing a claim until it has been demonstrated to be true. If you don't follow that rule you'll eventually be forced to believe contradictory things.

 

[AV1611VET]

We start with not believing a claim until it has been demonstrated to be true.

I believe my parents were my parents; and I'm not going to have their bodies exhumed for DNA, just so I can say it with authority.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I believe my parents were my parents; and I'm not going to have their bodies exhumed for DNA, just so I can say it with authority.

So you're confident they are your parents. That's fine. It seems reasonable, even if there is a chance you might be wrong. That seems to me to be different than stating something supernatural factually exists (or doesn't exist).

 

[AV1611VET]

So you're confident they are your parents. That's fine. It seems reasonable, even if there is a chance you might be wrong. That seems to me to be different than stating something supernatural factually exists (or doesn't exist).

So it's scientific to say [it] doesn't exist; but we can't, by faith, say [it] does exist; or your science will find a way to ridicule our faith?

Just out of curiosity, how many times has science said something didn't/couldn't exist: just to find out they were wrong later?

 

[Skreeper]

I believe my parents were my parents; and I'm not going to have their bodies exhumed for DNA, just so I can say it with authority.

Your parents and the existence of gods or UFO's are not really equal claims.

 

[Skreeper]

So it's scientific to say [it] doesn't exist; but we can't, by faith, say [it] does exist; or your science will find a way to ridicule our faith?

It's scientific to say I do not believe claim X until is has been demonstrated to be true and enough evidence has been provided. It has nothing to do with faith.