What is ID?

[Speedwell]

not realy. actually we can explain everything in biology without the evolution theory. give me just one example of something in biology that cant be explain by the design model.

The "design model" does not explain anything in biology because there is no design model, only the bald assertion, "evolution couldn't do it so it must have been designed." ID offers no explanations, only denials.

so lets say for the sake of the argument that god existence is a fact. in this case you will also say that its seems impossible?

The existence of God has nothing to do with this discussion. Say, if you like, that God exists; I agree with you, but ID is still fraudulent pseudoscience and bad theology.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Don't worry though, you can still deny the science and practice whatever faith you like, no one is stopping you.

"The science" is not something one can deny or believe in, it's all people that attempt to read the natural....nothing more.

And I'm not the least bit worried about concepts you people have allowed to become some kind of little end all in your minds, when it is no more than opinions/assumptions that may or may not be correct, or at worse a farce created to replace God, fallen for by those who allowed themselves to create it.

And thank you for allowing me to practice my faith, I'll take it over "The science" any day.

 

[Kenny'sID]

So science teachers don't want their students to believe in God? Talk about silly nonsense...

If, on your simple agenda driven level, that is all you got from my comment, then I'll leave it with you, with only the suggestion to look a little closer.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Here's the thing though: even IF religious classes were present in all schools...they don't "replace" biology. Biology is science. Religion is religion.

And? did anyone even hint biology should be replaced?

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, you aren't being honest. The theory of evolution does not attempt or pretend to attempt to replace religion or to affirm or deny that there is meaning to life.

OK, I'll be honest, sometimes when I post I give credit to people to be able to put two and two together.

But, since that doesn't always work out, evolution attempts to make the truth of the bible null, so maybe you can take it from there. And no, I don't go for the "interpretation" defense.

 

[Speedwell]

And? did anyone even hint biology should be replaced?

Isn't that what you wanted? To teach fundamentalist Protestant theology in science class in place of evolution? To add fundamentalist Protestant prayer and theology to the curriculum generally? You were the one who complained recently here that "God" had been taken out of school--when really all that happened is that fundamentalist prayer and Bible study had been taken out. Isn't that what you want, to have it put back?

 

[xianghua]

The "design model" does not explain anything in biology because there is no design model, only the bald assertion, "evolution couldn't do it so it must have been designed." ID offers no explanations, only denials.

not realy. we also have positive evidences for design. and by the way- as far as we know there are only 2 possibilities: a natural process or a design. so i dont see anything wrong with trying to disprove a nantural evolution.

and by the way- evolution isnt a scientific model either. so what is your resistance to id or creation is all about?

 

[Kenny'sID]

"Many" means "many Christian fundamenatalists", which in no way even remotely represent a majority view.

No, many means many, that's all, I claimed nothing else. If you are going to put words in my mouth, not much sense in me posting...just post and answer for me.

It's getting more and more tempting not to even read some of the posts here.

 

[Speedwell]

OK, I'll be honest, sometimes when I post I give credit to people to be able to put two and two together.

But, since that doesn't always work out, evolution attempts to make the truth of the bible null, so maybe you can take it from there. And no, I don't go for the "interpretation" defense.

Evolution "attempts" nothing of the kind, it's just a side effect. And if it makes your "truth of the Bible" null, that's too bad for you but not an excuse for pushing on other Christian kids in science class.

But remember this: you don't own Christianity, you don't define it, your "biblical" version of it is not the best, most traditional or in any way the "default" version. So I have nothing I need to defend to you.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Isn't that what you wanted? To teach fundamentalist Protestant theology in science class in place of evolution?

Are you not aware of the switch you just made there? And you actually claimed I"M not being honest? lol

But since I've had to explain before because you truly may not get it...we were talking simple biology, not evolution.

Isn't that what you wanted? To teach fundamentalist Protestant theology in science class in place of evolution? To add fundamentalist Protestant prayer and theology to the curriculum generally? You were the one who complained recently here that "God" had been taken out of school--when really all that happened is that fundamentalist prayer and Bible study had been taken out. Isn't that what you want, to have it put back?

You need to ease off on the assumptions, I'm not going to correct what I didn't claim...takes too much time.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Evolution "attempts" nothing of the kind, it's just a side effect.

Side affect/attempt, whatever....you keep dropping time wasting arguments here, that really get us no where. Do you just like talking?

 

[Speedwell]

not realy. we also have positive evidences for design. and by the way- as far as we know there are only 2 possibilities: a natural process or a design. so i dont see anything wrong with trying to disprove a nantural evolution.

Yes but the naturalistic explanation offers an explanation of how the process actually works; ID does not.

and by the way- evolution isnt a scientific model either. so what is your resistance to id or creation is all about?

ID is fraudulent pseudoscience, the invention of the Discovery Institute of Seattle, a fascist front organization who would impose a totalitarian theocracy on this country. In any case, they're all Calvinists, not a theology I have much appreciation for.

 

[Speedwell]

Side affect/attempt, whatever....you keep dropping time wasting arguments here, that really get us no where. Do you just like talking?

So what do you want to happen? What would the biology curriculum look like if you were running it? If you could be specific about the changes you wanted I wouldn't have to make any assumptions (which were framed as questions, BTW--unanswered questions).

 

[Kenny'sID]

So what do you want to happen? What would the biology curriculum look like if you were running it? If you could be specific about the changes you wanted I wouldn't have to make any assumptions (which were framed as questions, BTW--unanswered questions).

Unanswered questions? When some of your posts are a waste of time/assumptions or nonfactual the pertinent ones have a tenancy to not get read along with others.

A happy medium or better yet, separate classes depending on what parents want for their kids.

The biology? things beyond doubt, like the make up of the human body, how plants grow, and "theory" of evolution if we must have the two together, otherwise what the respective parents can agree on.

 

[Speedwell]

Unanswered questions? When some of your posts are a waste of time/assumptions or nonfactual the pertinent ones have a tenancy to not get read along with others.

A happy medium or better yet, separate classes depending on what parents want for their kids.

The biology? things beyond doubt, like the make up of the human body, how plants grow, and "theory" of evolution if we must have the two together, otherwise what the respective parents can agree on.

How is that different from what is happening now? The ToE, where it is taught, usually doesn't take up more than a unit in the curriculum, two weeks tops. I question the direct involvement of the parents. The purpose of science class is to teach how science works and what it's major conclusions have been. It is what it is, and students should know that. Even if you think the theory of evolution is wrong, it is still science and should be taught as such. Cutting the theory of evolution out of biology class would be like cutting the Civil War out of US history because the "good guys" lost.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How is that different from what is happening now? The ToE, where it is taught, usually doesn't take up more than a unit in the curriculum, two weeks tops. I question the direct involvement of the parents. The purpose of science class is to teach how science works and what it's major conclusions have been. It is what it is, and students should know that. Even if you think the theory of evolution is wrong, it is still science and should be taught as such. Cutting the theory of evolution out of biology class would be like cutting the Civil War out of US history because the "good guys" lost.

You don't seem very interested in any solution other than what is there...oh well.

You asked, I told you. And just your comment about parents involvement, tells me we are worlds apart. You seem to be tending towards your way or the highway so we will come to no agreement here.

 

[bhsmte]

Unanswered questions? When some of your posts are a waste of time/assumptions or nonfactual the pertinent ones have a tenancy to not get read along with others.

A happy medium or better yet, separate classes depending on what parents want for their kids.

The biology? things beyond doubt, like the make up of the human body, how plants grow, and "theory" of evolution if we must have the two together, otherwise what the respective parents can agree on.

What are your credentials, to be able to determine what is taught in science class?

Also, is something stopping you from teaching your kids religious beliefs in church, or in your home?

 

[Larniavc]

s there also a ghost in their brain?

No brains can never shown to have ghosts in them.

 

[doubtingmerle]

certainly possible. yes. i never said othehrwise.

OK, so the modern horse and zebras probably evolved from Hyracatherium, and lions and tigers may have evolved from Proailurus. That's quite a lot of evolution there.

And all those fossils I showed of the horse series would then really be transitionals. That seems to indicate we agree that transitionals exist.

no. its a big jump from saying that all cats evolved from a common cat and saying that all mammals evolved from a common mammal.

Why is it a big jump to go from all cats evolving from Proailurus, to saying Proailurus and Hyracotherium evolved from a common ancestor? That does not seem like such a big jump compared to the evolution that you accept.

so lets say for the sake of the argument that god existence is a fact. in this case you will also say that its seems impossible?

No, I will not.

i realy cant see a big difference between the two.

That's odd, because you have been claiming that there is a big difference, that popping into existence has evidence and theistic evolution does not. But now you say there is not much difference between the two.

Actually there is one big difference. Theistic evolution is much closer to the evidence. There is no evidence that animals have been suddenly popping into existence for millions of years.

 

[Colter]

"Ghost in the machine" is a figure of speech, referring to the idea that there is some sort of spirit inside telling the brain what to do.

I see no answer here to my question as to where you think the divide is between animals with a "ghost in the machine" and those without it.

If we have a "ghost in the machine", why is our brain so much like those animals that don't?

And I do find your comment, "Monkeys and horses and spiders are not capable of survival," to be very odd. I disagree. Horses are capable of survival.

I meant survival after death. Horses don't survive death. When human minds first mutated then was their life on earth that could survive death in the next life. Man has mind capable of choosing God or not.