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The influence of the HS in our lives is favor shown to us by God. The power that changes our lives is the greatest favor that can be given to us.1) In the definition you posted:
[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).
2) Also see:
Ac 7:10 - "gave him favor (charis) and wisdom before Pharaoh"
Ac 14:26 - "from there they sailed to Antioch where they had been commended to the favor (charis) of God for the work which they had fulfilled."
Indeed it is, but I'm thinking salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) would be the greatest favor.The influence of the HS in our lives is favor shown to us by God. The power that changes our lives is the greatest favor that can be given to us.
Why not both? We can have both through power of the HS, and in fact the Bible tells us this explicitly.Indeed it is, but I'm thinking salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) would be the greatest favor.
smhI have no reason ro disbelieve you. What I'm saying is a long ways from the way you are accustomed to think of in this context. You're accustomed to thinking of grace as unmerited favor or forgiveness. The word translated as grace does not mean that at all.
[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).
As God does not argue with Himself the word grace cannot mean what people are accustomed to thinking of it meaning.
And? You obviously disagree.
The problem is not that I disagree, but that we have no common point of departure from agreement. To argue with your reasoning would be worse than debating an Amazonian Indian on the meaning and application of "useful". I wouldn't even know where to begin. Not worth my time. Sorry. I mean you no disrespect.And? You obviously disagree.
I agree. What I'm saying is so different than what you've been taught that you say the fault lies with me even though all I've dine is quote scripture and the meaning if the Greek word translated as grace.The problem is not that I disagree, but that we have no common point of departure from agreement. To argue with your reasoning would be worse than debating an Amazonian Indian on the meaning and application of "useful". I wouldn't even know where to begin. Not worth my time. Sorry. I mean you no disrespect.
Lol, no. That's not what I'm talking about. You get a sequence of logic in your mind that presupposes, pursues and ignores all sorts of things that it should not, not to mention sloughing from one meaning to another as a way to get there. My mother-in-law would cook that way. Bad enough that the goulash she wanted to cook was a waste of money, but when she realized she was out of lemon juice, she used salt, because, "they are both sour".I agree. What I'm saying is so different than what you've been taught that you say the fault lies with me even though all I've dine is quote scripture and the meaning if the Greek word translated as grace.
That's OK. I think the same thing about Calvinist beliefs.Lol, no. That's not what I'm talking about. You get a sequence of logic in your mind that presupposes, pursues and ignores all sorts of things that it should not, not to mention sloughing from one meaning to another as a way to get there. My mother-in-law would cook that way. Bad enough that the goulash she wanted to cook was a waste of money, but when she realized she was out of lemon juice, she used salt, because, "they are both sour".
No the issue is the argument that you would post doesn't hold up so you post things like what we are responding too and the following. Which BTW doesn't address the points of the post you are responding too objectively but subjectively.The problem is not that I disagree, but that we have no common point of departure from agreement. To argue with your reasoning would be worse than debating an Amazonian Indian on the meaning and application of "useful". I wouldn't even know where to begin. Not worth my time. Sorry. I mean you no disrespect.
Lol, no. That's not what I'm talking about. You get a sequence of logic in your mind that presupposes, pursues and ignores all sorts of things that it should not, not to mention sloughing from one meaning to another as a way to get there. My mother-in-law would cook that way. Bad enough that the goulash she wanted to cook was a waste of money, but when she realized she was out of lemon juice, she used salt, because, "they are both sour".
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