What is grace?

[Gary K]

It says the same thing it has always said. Simply read Ephesians 2:1-10. The Ephesians were wrapped up in all kinds of things yet God saved them anyway. It was not a reward for what they had been doing because they had been doing evil.

So show me the meaning of the Greek.

Here's what Strong's says grace in verse 7 is translated from:

[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

 

[HTacianas]

So show me the meaning of the Greek.

Here's what Strong's says grace in verse 7 is translated from:

[*StrongsGreek*]
05485
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece
from 5463;
graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

So how does that really differ from the understanding everyone has had?

 

[Gary K]

So how does that really differ from the understanding everyone has had?

Does the Holy Spirit equal any of the other explanations?

 

[HTacianas]

Does the Holy Spirit equal any of the other explanations?

I do not understand your question.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I just got to thinking about it. There a lot of threads in this forum saying we don't need to keep the Sabbath and they claim grace is the reason they don't need to keep it. They equate the meaning of grace with the word forgiveness. Scripturally speaking that just isn't true for one person of the God head does not contradict another.

You didn't put it this way, but: As far as I can remember nobody on these forums would say that they don't need to keep the Sabbath because God will forgive them for not doing so. But then, I don't see your counter to that notion making a lot of sense either: The same God of the Sabbath is the God that forgives, so...

 

[Gary K]

I do not understand your question.

Does the HS equal forgiveness, etc...?

 

[Gary K]

You didn't put it this way, but: As far as I can remember nobody on these forums would say that they don't need to keep the Sabbath because God will forgive them for not doing so. But then, I don't see your counter to that notion making a lot of sense either: The same God of the Sabbath is the God that forgives, so...

Can we just ignore God's word, hang on to our sins and still expect to be saved?

 

[HTacianas]

Does the HS equal forgiveness, etc...?

The Holy Spirit is a divine person of the Trinity. And no, the Holy Spirit does not equal forgiveness.

 

[Gary K]

The Holy Spirit is a divine person of the Trinity. And no, the Holy Spirit does not equal forgiveness.

Good. You're an honest man.

2Thessalonians 2: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[HTacianas]

Good. You're an honest man.

2Thessalonians 2: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Are we talking about deceiving lies? It's the oldest trick in the book. Literally. God said "you shall surely die". One word was changed making it "surely you shall not die". Jesus said "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved". Others came along later and said "he who believes shall be saved". It's the same thing. "Surely you shall be baptized" becomes "surely you shall not be baptized". Jesus said he will judge all men based on their works. Someone came along long after the fact saying Jesus said he would not judge all men based on their works. James said a man is justified by works and not by faith only. Someone came along and said a man is justified by faith only.

Now go back and re-read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

 

[Gary K]

Are we talking about deceiving lies? It's the oldest trick in the book. Literally. God said "you shall surely die". One word was changed making it "surely you shall not die". Jesus said "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved". Others came along later and said "he who believes shall be saved". It's the same thing. "Surely you shall be baptized" becomes "surely you shall not be baptized". Jesus said he will judge all men based on their works. Someone came along long after the fact saying Jesus said he would not judge all men based on their works. James said a man is justified by works and not by faith only. Someone came along and said a man is justified by faith only.

Now go back and re-read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

What is a lie designed to do? Deceive.

 

[HTacianas]

What is a lie designed to do? Deceive.

So what lies are you hearing?

 

[HIM]

Scripture does not contradict itself. And I leave the meanings of Greek words to the Greek Church.

That is nonsensical considering the ease of information these days

 

[HTacianas]

That is nonsensical considering the ease of information these days

Should I argue the meaning of a Greek word with a Greek priest?

 

[Gary K]

So what lies are you hearing?

That people don't want to accept that the words of scripture when scripture conflicts with their opinions. It doesn't really matter what specific lies as long as scripture disagrees with their sacred cows.

 

[HTacianas]

That people don't want to accept that the words of scripture when scripture conflicts with their opinions. It doesn't really matter what specific lies as long as scripture disagrees with their sacred cows.

I'm certainly glad I'm not involved in any of that.

 

[Gary K]

I'm certainly glad I'm not involved in any of that.

Me too. It's a very dangerous place to be, spiritually speaking.

 

[daq]

Ephesians 2:8 contains doron which is most often rendered as gift but means more than that in ancient times: it literally means a gift-offering, and is used in many places in the LXX version of the Torah for the Hebrew word korban.

The most important gift-offering of the Meshiah is his Testimony which is now recorded in the Gospel accounts as a free gift-offering for any and all who are spiritually thirsty and will drink of that one Spirit.

Moreover because the Torah was given through Mosheh the Grace and the Truth came to be through Meshiah, (John 1:17), for he fills up the Torah and expounds the whole of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in his Testimony, which is the Spirit of Grace, (Zec 12:10, Heb 10:29), and the new Spirit of the renewed covenant foretold in Ezekiel the Prophet, (Eze 11:19-20, Eze 36:25-28).

If the Father had not sent His Son to expound His Torah, Prophets, and Writings, we would never know how to walk pleasing unto Him because we would not understand His instructions and His will. Truly that is grace, (not to mention all of the other true aspects which others have already mentioned herein).

 

[Mark Quayle]

Can we just ignore God's word, hang on to our sins and still expect to be saved?

Are you getting that out of something I said? That's absurd.

 

[Gary K]

Are you getting that out of something I said? That's absurd.

Yes I'm getting that out of what you said.

Jesus said the following:

Matthew 12: 31 ¶Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Just what is it to claim that the word meaning HS is interpreted as another word meaning something else?