What is god?

[workmx]

Yes I have had a specific case in mind as I went there with you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 3:13-17

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

.. to me, there is no other explanation. Either it is true, whoever made the claim lied, or whoever claims to have seen this happened was delusional. There are all sorts of other examples of God interacting with people, such as this one. I would be looking for an example that cannot be explained by lie, truth or delusion. Please let me know if you can think of another explanation.

How do I verify this information?

If I was to believe everything I read in books, I would think that wizards, witches and dragons are real.

 

[oi_antz]

How do I verify this information?

You can't, the alleged witnesses are long gone.

If I was to believe everything I read in books, I would think that wizards, witches and dragons are real.

And yet people do believe things that are written in books, and some of what is written in books is true. Please let me know if you can think of another explanation than truth, lie or delusion. It seems to me you are suggesting you regard this as most likely lie at this time.

 

[workmx]

You can't, the alleged witnesses are long gone.

And yet people do believe things that are written in books, and some of what is written in books is true. Please let me know if you can think of another explanation than truth, lie or delusion. It seems to me you are suggesting you regard this as most likely lie at this time.

No. I believe that your faith in genuine.

I am just not sure that belief based on faith is the best method for getting to truth.

I think you are too hard on yourself.

Delusion is a technical term in psychiatry, as it stands religous faith is not a delusion according to the DSM.

Even if it was, it is an illness not a choice.

 

[oi_antz]

No. I believe that your faith in genuine.

I am just not sure that belief based on faith is the best method for getting to truth.

I think you are too hard on yourself.

Delusion is a technical term in psychiatry, as it stands religous faith is not a delusion according to the DSM.

Even if it was, it is an illness not a choice.

I am not discussing my beliefs, actually. I just want to know if you can support your idea that there must be other explanations for alleged involvement from God with humankind than truth, lie or delusion. I accept you might have been thinking out loud, but you should accept it too.

Edit: religious faith is not delusion, but thinking that God spoke from the sky if He didn't, is.

 

[workmx]

I am not discussing my beliefs, actually. I just want to know if you can support your idea that there must be other explanations for alleged involvement from God with humankind than truth, lie or delusion. I accept you might have been thinking out loud, but you should accept it too.

Edit: religious faith is not delusion, but thinking that God spoke from the sky if He didn't, is.

So, to clarify: you don't think god interacts with the world here and now?

Or just that it is not possible for god to talk to us now?

 

[oi_antz]

So, to clarify: you don't think god interacts with the world here and now?

I do, but I don't know to which extent, and I don't know if whether what I think is Him interacting with the world really is Him interacting with the world, or whether it is my own delusion convincing me to believe so.

Or just that it is not possible for god to talk to us now?

Not this.

What about addressing my questions? This has been a one-way conversation for a long time. You have made claims without supporting them, and yet I think that if I tried to do that, you would not be so patient with me.

 

[workmx]

I do, but I don't know to which extent, and I don't know if whether what I think is Him interacting with the world really is Him interacting with the world, or whether it is my own delusion convincing me to believe so.

You may have meant confirmation bias (it is not a delusion).

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

And it is something we all have to struggle to overcome, pretty much all the time.

What about addressing my questions? This has been a one-way conversation for a long time. You have made claims without supporting them, and yet I think that if I tried to do that, you would not be so patient with me.

Happy to answer any question (where it is possible to do so).

 

[oi_antz]

You may have meant confirmation bias (it is not a delusion).

Confirmation bias - RationalWiki

And it is something we all have to struggle to overcome, pretty much all the time.

I agree with that last sentence. I assume that confirmation bias can contribute to what I am calling delusion, but it is possible I am using the wrong word. I have looked at the definition on Google:

an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

.. Whereas in the case of someone who is sure they heard God speak from the sky at Jesus' baptism, when in fact He didn't, either that is a hallucination or a misinterpretation of something else that has happened. I have been using the word delusion to describe being sure of something when that certainty is misplaced or wrong. This understanding I have used is derived from the definition of the word "delude":

make (someone) believe something that is not true

.. which does describe what I am using the word "deluded" for. I accept that confirmation bias usually will contribute to that, but I still think that what I am describing is not the same as confirmation bias, but is always the result of when confirmation bias causes us to believe something that is wrong.

Happy to answer any question (where it is possible to do so).

Here's one: what do you think is the reason that you have a different belief about your behaviour than what is actually practiced? For an example, you said here that you are happy to answer any question where it is possible to do so. Yet, you have almost constantly ignored my questions.

 

[workmx]

I agree with that last sentence. I assume that confirmation bias can contribute to what I am calling delusion, but it is possible I am using the wrong word. I have looked at the definition on Google:

an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

.. Whereas in the case of someone who is sure they heard God speak from the sky at Jesus' baptism, when in fact He didn't, either that is a hallucination or a misinterpretation of something else that has happened. I have been using the word delusion to describe being sure of something when that certainty is misplaced or wrong. This understanding I have used is derived from the definition of the word "delude":

make (someone) believe something that is not true

.. which does describe what I am using the word "deluded" for. I accept that confirmation bias usually will contribute to that, but I still think that what I am describing is not the same as confirmation bias, but is always the result of when confirmation bias causes us to believe something that is wrong.

Here's one: what do you think is the reason that you have a different belief about your behaviour than what is actually practiced? For an example, you said here that you are happy to answer any question where it is possible to do so. Yet, you have almost constantly ignored my questions.

Okay - As I have said, I do not know your assumptions or your thoughts, so I cannot understand how you will interpret what I write.

I can guess, but I will probably get it wrong.

From my interactions with theists, I have found that they feel threatened by atheists (this is one of the reasons I think those who do not belive in god should avoid using the term, in some situations).

This is coincides with the available evidence on the perception of atheists as untrustworthy.

As to why the mere existence of atheists is perceived as a threat - I have no idea.

So, my guess is: because of the assumptions you make, there is a systematic misunderstanding of my position.

 

[oi_antz]

Okay - As I have said, I do not know your assumptions or your thoughts, so I cannot understand how you will interpret what I write.

I can guess, but I will probably get it wrong.

From my interactions with theists, I have found that they feel threatened by atheists (this is one of the reasons I think those who do not belive in god should avoid using the term, in some situations).

This is coincides with the available evidence on the perception of atheists as untrustworthy.

As to why the mere existence of atheists is perceived as a threat - I have no idea.

So, my guess is: because of the assumptions you make, there is a systematic misunderstanding of my position.

This is completely irrelevant, though it does contain truth. You have again failed to address my question though. Why is that?