What is "God"?

ebia · Nov 12, 2006

arensb said:
Yes, I was being a smart-ass, and I'd like to apologize.

But the reason that I entitled this thread "What is "God"?" rather than "Who is God?" is that I'd like to get down to brass tacks, the nitty-gritty, where the rubber meets the road, to the most down-to-earth, pragmatic level I can, but no one seems to want to go there. I'm not asking about what God talks to you about, I'm asking what his voice sounds like, whether he's a baritone or a tenor, that sort of thing.

I'd also like to point out that no one has yet even attempted to answer the first part of my question, namely "what is a deity?" I understand that y'all believe that there is one and only one deity in the universe, but if there were a second one, how would you know? What criteria do you use to decide whether some entity is a deity or not? If Thor or Brahma or Superman or the Flying Spaghetti Monster really existed, would you consider any of them to be deities?

I suspect the reason you aren't getting the answer you want is because we don't have a generic idea of 'deity'. We know some stuff about our God - but he tells us he is unique and we believe him, so we don't have a lot to say about other deities beyond "they don't exist".

Similiarly, we aren't well equiped to answer questions like "what is God made of" because they aren't the sort of information we even have of our God. It might be important information to you, but it isn't to us and it doesn't seem to be to God. God seems much more interested in teaching us about relationship stuff than your kind of question.

keyarch · Nov 12, 2006

arensb said:
This should be a fairly simple question:

First of all, what is a god? If you saw a god on the street, how would you know that he/she/it was a god?

You would probably experience extreme Love and Fear at the same time. You would just know without a doubt. Angels might be a different matter. You probably wouldn't know.

Secondly, if that god happened to be a/the God of Christianity, how would you know?

Christians believe there is only one God, so if you had the faith that it was God, and you were a Christian, it would be assumed.

One thing you can count on - In less than 100 years, you and I will both know for sure, or not. Like a bumper sticker says: "If you're living your life like there is no God, you'd better be right!".

Rafael · Nov 12, 2006

arensb said:
Do you mean the Big Bang?

Unfortunately, this doesn't really answer my question. I was hoping more for a description. By way of analogy, it's as if I had asked "what is an elephant?" and you had said, "the largest land mammal", when I was hoping more for something along the lines of "a land mammal living in Africa and India, with four legs, large ears, and a long trunk".

So maybe you can start by telling me whether a god is animal/vegetable/mineral/idea/arrangement of parts/other (please specify), and we'll go from there.

Okay, so how might this happen? If we set up cameras or theometers to watch for such a manifestation, what should they be looking for?

God transcends the dimension of mankind, yet He is also able to manifest Himself in the flesh of mankind as Jesus. The Bible says that we exist and have our being within God; that He is All and in all, mbut He is not limited to the powers of our limited perseptions at all.
As the others have related, He is the Maker of all we experience as life. He communicates to us with life and all the creation we enjoy and walk within.
According to the Bible, He made man in His image, and that He loved His creation in man and would share with it part of His nature. To do that, He had to give His creation in man a choice between good and evil, knowing that man would fall into sin and death, but love requires a choice and cannot be forced or automatic. Jesus provided that way back to eternal life that mankind once had in Adam and Eve.
Indeed, there is evidence that all men suffer from the nature of sin and death. We see it on the news every night. We also have great evidence that Jesus lived and came back to seek the lost sheep of Israel who were scattered into all the world to come back as "Sons of the Living God"... He has given all mankind the choice to become sons of God and become His eternal family - going on to build a new heavens and earth, together, as the joint heirs of the Kingdom of God through His Son, Jesus.
History, archeology, all the sciences when, point to an intelligent designer of life. Even the DNA looks like a program that is far more sophisticated than we could ever have known until just recently.
The scriptures said that much of this knowledge would be held up until the time where information would go to and fro throughout this world, and it has happend just that way. We, as mankind, really are not so smart as we like to think or we would be building by reverse engineering the mechanisms of life. It hasn't happened, yet each time we look at a hand or a simple cell that has life, we cannot reproduce such awesome creation and then count it off as the product of millions of accidents....
So God can be as illusive as we like to imagine or as close as the next word that comes from our mouths that has faith in the love and good that He says He is.

WashedClean · Nov 12, 2006

arensb said:
Yes, I was being a smart-ass, and I'd like to apologize.

Apology accepted

But the reason that I entitled this thread "What is "God"?" rather than "Who is God?" is that I'd like to get down to brass tacks, the nitty-gritty, where the rubber meets the road, to the most down-to-earth, pragmatic level I can, but no one seems to want to go there. I'm not asking about what God talks to you about, I'm asking what his voice sounds like, whether he's a baritone or a tenor, that sort of thing.

I'd also like to point out that no one has yet even attempted to answer the first part of my question, namely "what is a deity?" I understand that y'all believe that there is one and only one deity in the universe, but if there were a second one, how would you know? What criteria do you use to decide whether some entity is a deity or not? If Thor or Brahma or Superman or the Flying Spaghetti Monster really existed, would you consider any of them to be deities?

God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. This only happens when one is born again. God usually doesn't speak audibly, although I believe he can be so clear that it seems like he does. He also speaks to us through other people, especially believer to believer. He lays things on my heart so that I sense he's telling me something, and then I make sure it lines up with His Word. He also speaks to us through His Word.

There is no second god, they are all man's imaginations, which are idols. I can't answer your question because to me, it's irrelevant, impossible, and impractical. I'm sorry if that frustrates you, I really am. Now, there are demons and they have powers, but they are created beings, not deities.

Hope this helps somewhat.

arensb · Nov 12, 2006

WashedClean said:
God usually doesn't speak audibly,

But when he does, what does it sound like?

WashedClean said:
He also speaks to us through other people, especially believer to believer.

Isn't this the same as saying that there are people who tell you they speak for God?

WashedClean said:
There is no second god, they are all man's imaginations, which are idols. I can't answer your question because to me, it's irrelevant, impossible, and impractical. I'm sorry if that frustrates you, I really am. Now, there are demons and they have powers, but they are created beings, not deities.

So are you saying that if Brahma walked up to you on the street and created a universe in front of you (not that I think this is at all likely to happen), even then, you would't consider him a deity?

salida · Nov 12, 2006

So, Ebia--

Your claiming the Bible isn't a book of prophesy?

The Book of Daniel was written between 607 to 534 B.C. This isn't based on assumptions but sound history by secular historians that have any credibility. The is one out of hundreds. This isn't a biased discovery but bible history. I have researched this and have found this to be true.

***To Ebia again:

Under the Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04621b.htm - At #3 Authorship and Date of Composition section it mentions that from 570 - 536 B.C. this Book of Daniel date is accepted by contemporary scholars. Next it says that a rival theory said its from 175 - 164 B.C. (We can agree to disagree as I will go with the most known established date which is between 500-600 B.C.) And this information is in a catholic encyclopedia.
I'm sure there is always someone challenging dates of the Bible of all sorts - but I'm going along with the standard dates.

Later, I will mention statistics - but its time for me to go to work.

WashedClean · Nov 12, 2006

arensb said:
But when he does, what does it sound like?

I don't know, I've never heard him speak audibly. The Bible mentions a couple of times where he speaks audibly - when Jesus was baptised and when Jesus was transfigured on the Mount and Moses and Elijah appeared with him. The people who heard him had no doubt who it was speaking.

Isn't this the same as saying that there are people who tell you they speak for God?

God has a personal relationship with his believers. Are there people who go around saying that God told them things that don't line up with who we know God is? Yes, of course. That's why when you feel God is speaking to you, it's important to check his word and make sure it's not contradicting.

So are you saying that if Brahma walked up to you on the street and created a universe in front of you (not that I think this is at all likely to happen), even then, you would't consider him a deity?

Pretty much... the reason is because I know that Satan and his angels can do signs and wonders, but that doesn't mean they are God. Your question is not just hypothetical, it's impossible. Therefore, I really can't answer you.

ebia · Nov 13, 2006

salida said:
So, Ebia--

Your claiming the Bible isn't a book of prophesy?

No. I asked for an honest statistically valid analysis of the prophesies.

The Book of Daniel was written between 607 to 534 B.C. This isn't based on assumptions but sound history by secular historians that have any credibility.

Both my Catholic bibles (NJB and NAB) are pretty sure it was written in the mid 2nd century BC so pretending scholars are unanimous about the 6th century is misleading or simply wrong. I've yet to see any serious secular historians place it in the 6th century - only evangelical Christain ones.

The is one out of hundreds. This isn't a biased discovery but bible history. I have researched this and have found this to be true.

So far it doesn't look like your research is very sound.

salida · Nov 13, 2006

Ebia--

I will get back with you concerning this. My dates arn't incorrect.

CASEY82 · Nov 13, 2006

arensb said:
Okay, but this doesn't answer my question. What is a god, and how would you recognize one if you saw one? (See also "what is an elephant?", above)[/quote
You've asked "what is a god" ...there is only "the" god...you ask your question like your expecting some gold robbed, jewellery adorned person to be walking down the street. With all these questions your asking about god...have you tried to seek him? because in that lies all your answers! If you look at god from the perspective of having never met him....you would see him as some object needing a defenition...but when you have actually met with god...it all comes together..you understand that he is not some object, some gold adorned man you'll see walking down the street. You know your in the presence of god because your heart feels so full that it could burst, you can honestly feel this incredible energy around you..like your room cannot contain it...he is not visual with your eyes...he's visual with your heart...of course he defys all man made logic! he wouldnt be god if he didnt! he is bigger than it all...why would our theories and our human concepts explain him or define him....he is our creator..not the other way around. Think with your heart...seek him honestly and i think you will be amazed and what you find...

arensb · Nov 13, 2006

CaSeY23 said:
arensb said:

Okay, but this doesn't answer my question. What is a god, and how would you recognize one if you saw one? (See also "what is an elephant?", above)

Click to expand...

You've asked "what is a god" ...there is only "the" god...you ask your question like your expecting some gold robbed, jewellery adorned person to be walking down the street. With all these questions your asking about god...have you tried to seek him? because in that lies all your answers! If you look at god from the perspective of having never met him....you would see him as some object needing a defenition...but when you have actually met with god...it all comes together..you understand that he is not some object, some gold adorned man you'll see walking down the street. You know your in the presence of god because your heart feels so full that it could burst, you can honestly feel this incredible energy around you..like your room cannot contain it...he is not visual with your eyes...he's visual with your heart...of course he defys all man made logic! he wouldnt be god if he didnt! he is bigger than it all...why would our theories and our human concepts explain him or define him....he is our creator..not the other way around. Think with your heart...seek him honestly and i think you will be amazed and what you find...

To be honest, what you're describing sounds like an altered state of mind more than anything else. It reminds me of a dream I had in which I saw a meadow. It was definitely green, but at the same time, I realized that I was dreaming in black and white. It was as if the "greenness" tag, which normally only gets activated when the visual cortex has analyzed the input from the eyes and determined it to be green, was getting turned on by itself. If you read Oliver Sacks, you'll find that the brain can do some really weird things.

I realize that there's such a thing as religious ecstasy and that a lot of it is consistent from person to person and even from culture to culture, but that doesn't mean that there's any more to it than the fact that we're all human. After all, all humans dream, and all humans hallucinate when they take LSD. Given the lack of agreement on what these experiences mean, I hope you'll forgive me for thinking that there's nothing supernatural about them.

All in all, from reading this thread and other things, it seems to me that "God" is like Wittgenstein's beetle in a box: it has no objective referent, and has no meaning other than "whatever I mean when I say `God'". This is consistent with the apparent reluctance of people on this thread to correct each other: no one has followed up to say "that's almost right, but you forgot about such-and-such" or "I know what you mean, but a better way to explain it would have been ..."

christianmomof3 · Nov 13, 2006

God is love. 1 John 4:8,16
God is light. 1 John 1:5
God is Spirit John 4:24

God is righteous and true.
God is the reality of every positive thing in the universe.
God Is.

God is not mocked. (Gal. 6:7)

If you seek Him, you will find Him.

arensb · Nov 13, 2006

christianmomof3 said:
If you seek Him, you will find Him.

Reality is that which, if you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick.

CASEY82 · Nov 14, 2006

arensb said:
To be honest, what you're describing sounds like an altered state of mind more than anything else. It reminds me of a dream I had in which I saw a meadow. It was definitely green, but at the same time, I realized that I was dreaming in black and white. It was as if the "greenness" tag, which normally only gets activated when the visual cortex has analyzed the input from the eyes and determined it to be green, was getting turned on by itself. If you read Oliver Sacks, you'll find that the brain can do some really weird things.

I realize that there's such a thing as religious ecstasy and that a lot of it is consistent from person to person and even from culture to culture, but that doesn't mean that there's any more to it than the fact that we're all human. After all, all humans dream, and all humans hallucinate when they take LSD. Given the lack of agreement on what these experiences mean, I hope you'll forgive me for thinking that there's nothing supernatural about them.

All in all, from reading this thread and other things, it seems to me that "God" is like Wittgenstein's beetle in a box: it has no objective referent, and has no meaning other than "whatever I mean when I say `God'". This is consistent with the apparent reluctance of people on this thread to correct each other: no one has followed up to say "that's almost right, but you forgot about such-and-such" or "I know what you mean, but a better way to explain it would have been ..."

So are u saying that chirstians world wide are suffering from some dilusions...that although we experience the same things...we are all collectively in a dillusional dream state??? I dont mean to be rude but your the one who's not sounding logical now...When you are in a dream state..yes you majority of times know its a dream state..when you meet with god...you have a complete sense of reality...and that's what blows your mind..because you know 100% that this is not a dream and that your meeting with a greater being, god. I stand by what i said before...no matter how much you want to cry out logic to people...you'll never define god, you'll never get him to fit your logical perception. God is so much bigger that our human mentality...after all, he created us...wouldnt it stand to reason that our logic cannot define him! I used to think similar to you! thats what made it hardest when i first became a christian...to believe and to trust in someone who didnt fit my human logic.He is not a magician..he is not there to perform tricks for us....he needs is to give him our faith...the first time god spoke to me was not because i was asking him to, it was not even in prayer situation...i was driving my car thinking about something totally different. If you have such a desire to know....why not seek him...therein lies all your answers.

salida · Nov 14, 2006

Ebia -

My sound research is above your message.

DArceri · Nov 14, 2006

GOD the Father is the creator of everything. He is sovereign, good, and Holy. His ultimate plan is to Glorify His name. He gave us free choice to accept Him or not to accept Him. He sent His Son to execute His plan to glorify His name. His plan includes salvation for everyone who accepts Him through Jesus Christ. Christ (God) can dwell in your heart through the Holy Spirit if you let Him. You need to accept Him as LORD and SAVIOR.

P.S. You won't find God on earth anymore. He already came and revealed Himself through Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. You can find answers in HIS WORD (scripture). And for those who accept Him and beleive, He gives eternal life. He will return on a day that only He knows (Second Coming) and it will be a day of judgement. And if He does come in our lifetime, you will still not recognize Him because you refuse to understand and know HIM or you will deny Him. For those who know Him and follow Him, those are the children of God (who He will never let go). You can know Him through the WORD (scripture).

God is the same God of the bible, so I suggest you read and use scripture quotes if you want to ask more questions about God, and only then will a meaningful dialog develop.

ebia · Nov 15, 2006

salida said:
Under the Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04621b.htm - At #3 Authorship and Date of Composition section it mentions that from 570 - 536 B.C. this Book of Daniel date is accepted by contemporary scholars. Next it says that a rival theory said its from 175 - 164 B.C. (We can agree to disagree as I will go with the most known established date which is between 500-600 B.C.) And this information is in a catholic encyclopedia.
I'm sure there is always someone challenging dates of the Bible of all sorts - but I'm going along with the standard dates.

You can go with whatever date you like, but if there is significant doubt when the book was written then it doesn't make very good evidence. The fact that both mainstream English-language Catholic bibles say mid 2nd century certainly constitutes significant doubt.

The Catholic Encyclopedia is pretty good, but it is rather old (over 100 years old) - it doesn't necessarly represent current thinking.

Anyway, weren't you going to provide evidence that the consensus of secular historians favoured 6th Century?

StTherese · Nov 15, 2006

God IS Existence. He simply IS.

salida · Nov 15, 2006

Ebia --

I don't get involved with current thinking or the most popular -but involved with standard dates. These dates will be the same dates in the next 100 years. I don't consider current thinking accurate because I have found that current thinking tries to rewrite history and cater to the pop culture of today -this changes all the time. Dates and history don't change but people attempt to change them.

Since most references give me these dates - this is already a consensus on secular historians and therefore the majority. You are welcome to find this out for yourself and do your own investigating if your are truly interested in the subject matter. I'm don't find a need to discuss this anymore. It was nice chatting with you.

Im_A · Nov 15, 2006

Please remember that this forum is not for debate between Christians but is for Non-Christians to ask Christians questions.

God Bless you all!

here's the sticky with this rule in it:
http://www.christianforums.com/t308...pdated-rules-questions-by-non-christians.html

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