What is "God"?

[arensb]

I still don't understand why you are asking these questions since you are self-identified as an atheist. Why ask questions about someone you believe does not exist?

Simple: an atheist is someone who lacks belief in gods. But then we run into a problem of definitions. If I asked you, "do you think there is such a thing as a blognorz?", you would be unable to answer the question unless I told you what a blognorz is.

So in order to properly answer the question "do you think there is such a thing as a god?", it is necessary to establish what a god is.

 

[dvd_holc]

So God is a certain set of emotions and actions?

If I chose a different set of emotions, e.g., hatred, fear, and anger, would that be a different god?

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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever f you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ​

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The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. ​

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But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. ​

 

[arensb]

God is invisible. He is a Spirit-being.

First of all, could you please define "spirit", as I asked in the OP?

God is a "Person" who is described at length in the Bible.

You contradict yourself: the Bible describes God as being visible (e.g., Genesis 32:30, Exodus 33:11, most of the Gospels).

Also, other posters have described God as being an emotion or set of emotions. This seems to contradict what you say. How do you reconcile these differences?

 

[arensb]

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, [...]

I'm afraid this really isn't helpful at all. Just to repeat, my question is, "what is a god?" You seemed to say earlier that a god is a set of emotions. How do you reconcile this with other posters who have said that a god is a person, or a burning bush? Are you all even talking about the same thing?

 

[FallingWaters]

First of all, could you please define "spirit", as I asked in the OP?

No I cannot, except that it is the invisible part of a person.

You contradict yourself: the Bible describes God as being visible (e.g., Genesis 32:30, Exodus 33:11, most of the Gospels).

YHWH is invisible, yet He made Himself known in the Person of Jesus Christ who was visible while He dwelt in a human body, and is visible now in Heaven.

Also, other posters have described God as being an emotion or set of emotions. This seems to contradict what you say. How do you reconcile these differences?

If we could get 10 people to describe YOU, do you think there would be "apparent contradictions"?

You are toying with us. This is not a debate thread yet you conduct yourself as though you are in a debate. I do not have to justify myself to you.

 

[arensb]

It' s WHOM is GOD

Grammatically, that should be "who is god". You wouldn't say "him is a living being", would you?

HE is a LIVING " BEING "

GOD can not be a Female

Okay, so God, being a living being, has a physical body, at least on e cell, reproductive organs, metabolism, etc., right?

You emphasize "he" and say that God is not female, so presumably God is not sexless, and furthermore is male. Out of curiosity, with whom does God reproduce?

Are these attributes of all gods, or only the one you're talking about? If you met Venus or Freya on the street, would you say that she is not a deity because she's female?

How does your definition square with the ones that other posters have provided? One person said that God is an emotion or set of emotions. Another said that God is invisible, which contradicts your statement that God is a living being.

 

[FallingWaters]

I was right. You are just toying with us, which I would have known sooner if I clicked on your link in the OP.

It's not even your own question. This is not an honest question from your own heart that you want answered.

 

[arensb]

God is described in the Bible as a consuming fire.

Okay, so God is a fire. Are all gods fires, or only the one in the Bible? And how do you reconcile your statement that God is a fire with other posters who have said that God is a person, a living being, or an emotion?

He is Holy,

What does "holy" mean?

so to ask if I would recognize him, my answer is "yes" because Jesus said "my sheep hear and recognize my voice".

Okay, so Jesus has a voice, which fits in with the notion that he was a human being. How do the sheep fit in, though? Is Jesus' voice only audible to animals?

Jesus humbled himself and took on flesh. However, I don't believe God the Father would take on flesh

Okay, so Jesus and God the Father are different entities.

So it sounds as if you're talking about two different gods: one is a fire, and the other is a human being. This contradicts other posters, who have said that there is only one god. How do you resolve this contradiction? Others have said that God is an emotion or set of emotions. Are they talking about yet a third god?

 

[arensb]

God is invisible. He is a Spirit-being.

First of all, could you please define "spirit", as I asked in the OP?

No I cannot,

I'm afraid, then, that saying that "[God] is a Spirit-being" isn't helpful.

except that it is the invisible part of a person.

Humans have many attributes that are invisible, in the sense of not affecting photons: height, age, health, emotions, marital status, etc. Unless you can narrow things down a bit, I'm afraid that saying that "[the spirit] is the invisible part of a person" isn't very helpful.

YHWH is invisible, yet He made Himself known in the Person of Jesus Christ who was visible while He dwelt in a human body, and is visible now in Heaven.

Okay, so where is Heaven? Specifically, where should we point our cameras to take a photograph of Jesus?

If we could get 10 people to describe YOU, do you think there would be "apparent contradictions"?

Not really, no. I expect that all ten people would agree that I'm a mammal, a biped, a human being, that I reside in North America, that I speak English, and much else.

You are toying with us.

No, I think the problem is that my question is more pedestrian than people realize. I'm asking a freshman-level question, and people only seem to want to give me senior- or graduate-level answers.

 

[ebia]

Do you mean the Big Bang?

The 'Big Bang' is a scientific description of how one stage of creation happened.

Unfortunately, this doesn't really answer my question. I was hoping more for a description. By way of analogy, it's as if I had asked "what is an elephant?" and you had said, "the largest land mammal", when I was hoping more for something along the lines of "a land mammal living in Africa and India, with four legs, large ears, and a long trunk".

So maybe you can start by telling me whether a god is animal/vegetable/mineral/idea/arrangement of parts/other (please specify), and we'll go from there

Other. All those term - in fact most of our terms, are derived from within creation and don't apply well if at all outside.

I guess the next descriptive stage would be Trinity - one God but three persons in eternal loving relationship as per the Athanatian Creed.

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

.

Okay, so how might this happen? If we set up cameras or theometers to watch for such a manifestation, what should they be looking for?

Looking back at previous manifestations there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern.

 

[arensb]

Other. All those term - in fact most of our terms, are derived from within creation and don't apply well if at all outside.

Okay, it's starting to sound as though God (or gods?) is not made of the normal sorts of matter we see around us every day: protons, electrons, photons, neutrinos, etc.

But that just brings up the next question: given that our senses and measurement devices only interact with ordinary matter, does that mean that not only is God undetectable by human senses, but also that it is impossible a priori to build a device that would detect the presence or absence of God, or to detect traces of God's interaction with matter in the universe?

I guess the next descriptive stage would be Trinity - one God but three persons in eternal loving relationship as per the Athanatian Creed.

That document seems to go out of its way to be confusing. But insofar as it makes sense, it seems to say that "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit" are just three names for the same entity, which is not adequately described.

 

[ebia]

Okay, it's starting to sound as though God (or gods?) is not made of the normal sorts of matter we see around us every day: protons, electrons, photons, neutrinos, etc.

Yup.

But that just brings up the next question: given that our senses and measurement devices only interact with ordinary matter, does that mean that not only is God undetectable by human senses, but also that it is impossible a priori to build a device that would detect the presence or absence of God, or to detect traces of God's interaction with matter in the universe?

Yup. Unless he chose to make such detectable, but then he could do that in any way he chose, so it's impossible it predict in advance.

That document seems to go out of its way to be confusing. But insofar as it makes sense, it seems to say that "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit" are just three names for the same entity, which is not adequately described.

It's confusing because what it's trying to describe is confusing and counter-intuitive. You will note that it says explicitely that they are not the same entity. BTW, it's not meant to be a complete description of God, just a description of the relationship that we label 'The Trinity'.

 

[Im_A]

This should be a fairly simple question:

First of all, what is a god? If you saw a god on the street, how would you know that he/she/it was a god?

Secondly, if that god happened to be a/the God of Christianity, how would you know?

If your answer includes the terms "soul", "spirit", "supernatural", or related terms, please define those as well.

I can think of a few problems that might appear in this thread. I'll attempt to forestall them in a followup post.

it's not that simple to define something we cannot see, feel or touch and then to note the biasedness that human beings are always are, there is nothing simple to defining "God".

personally, the concern of idolatry to make God in some image is coming in. the selfishness and pride that comes in with defining God as one wants and hopes to, is starting to draw concerns.

simply put, "if horses had gods, they would look like horses."

 

[WashedClean]

it's not that simple to define something we cannot see, feel or touch and then to note the biasedness that human beings are always are, there is nothing simple to defining "God".

personally, the concern of idolatry to make God in some image is coming in. the selfishness and pride that comes in with defining God as one wants and hopes to, is starting to draw concerns.

simply put, "if horses had gods, they would look like horses."

Excellent point. An infinite god such as YHWH cannot be explained by human minds. He is so much more beyond our comprehension.

I think you are toying with us as FallingWaters said. You know very well that when Jesus said "my sheep know my voice" he was not talking about animals. Stop playing games with us. We are sincerely trying to answer your questions, but you don't seem to really want to understand, just to debate. I'll answer a few of your questions that seem sincere:

What does "holy" mean?

Holy means "set apart". This means God is not like us, he is altogether different. He's perfect, we're not. He's righteous, we are not.

Okay, so Jesus and God the Father are different entities.

So it sounds as if you're talking about two different gods: one is a fire, and the other is a human being. This contradicts other posters, who have said that there is only one god. How do you resolve this contradiction? Others have said that God is an emotion or set of emotions. Are they talking about yet a third god?

No, Jesus and God are one in the same. They are different manifestations of the Godhead, along with the Holy Spirit. There IS only one god, YHWH, which is why I'm not responding to your questions about other gods. They are irrelevant.

 

[salida]

aren...

I will tell you who God is. The true God - is the God of the Bible. I will describe His attributes:

God is infinite, holy, all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, divine, eternal, supernatural and is a Spirit. You can't see God with your natural eyes but you can with your spiritual eyes. His nature also is love, peace, joy, longsuffering, patience, kindness, faith, temperance and gentleness. These are the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Who is God? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are three persons who are equal in nature, power, essense and authority. Read these scriptures for yourself - don't just take my word for it. (Its the one What and the three Who's).

Isaiah 43:10 - One God
1 Corinthians 8:6 - one God the Father
Hebrews 1:8 - The Father speaking to the Son
Acts 5:3-4: The Holy Spirit being God
John 17:1-26:the Father and Son love one another and speak to each other
John 15:26- together the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit
John 8:14-18 -Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges.

Why of the Bible? Because there is overwhelming evidence of the Bible- everything points to it. Its a spiritual book but if one were to choose an religion by intellect alone - it would be the Bible. Below is some information because it would take pages here!

The Bible has stronger manuscript evidence than Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Caesar and Tacitus. Its been virtually unaltered since its original writing as backed up by secular historical scholars. These scholars have compared the earliest manuscripts. Reliability is affirmed by its testimony of its authors who were eye witnesses of the recorded events by secular historians who confirm many events, people, places and customs recorded in scripture (Bible). Archaelogically evidence is continuous and non stop of the Bible and verifys its reliability. Next, the Bible has hundreds of prophesies in it that has come true and its not by chance, common sense. One example, in the Book of Daniel written in 530 B.C. accurately predicts the progression of kingdoms from Babylon through the Medo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and Roman Empire. This includes the persecution and suffering of the jews under Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the freedom for the jews under Judas Maccabeus, 165 B.C. It is statistically unreal that any or all of the Bible's specific prophesies could have been fulfilled by good guessing or deliberate deceit. (There is hundreds of these prophesies - and there are more to come to be fulfilled).

Read Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (went from an athiest to a christian - if interested in knowing more info)

Glad that you came and asked.

 

[ebia]

aren...

I will tell you who God is. The true God - is the God of the Bible. I will describe His attributes:

God is infinite, holy, all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, divine, eternal, supernatural and is a Spirit. You can't see God with your natural eyes but you can with your spiritual eyes. His nature also is love, peace, joy, longsuffering, patience, kindness, faith, temperance and gentleness. These are the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Who is God? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are three persons who are equal in nature, power, essense and authority. Read these scriptures for yourself - don't just take my word for it. (Its the one What and the three Who's).

Isaiah 43:10 - One God
1 Corinthians 8:6 - one God the Father
Hebrews 1:8 - The Father speaking to the Son
Acts 5:3-4: The Holy Spirit being God
John 17:1-26:the Father and Son love one another and speak to each other
John 15:26- together the Father and Son send the Holy Spirit
John 8:14-18 -Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges.

Why of the Bible? Because there is overwhelming evidence of the Bible- everything points to it. Its a spiritual book but if one were to choose an religion by intellect alone - it would be the Bible. Below is some information because it would take pages here!

The Bible has stronger manuscript evidence than Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Caesar and Tacitus. Its been virtually unaltered since its original writing as backed up by secular historical scholars. These scholars have compared the earliest manuscripts. Reliability is affirmed by its testimony of its authors who were eye witnesses of the recorded events by secular historians who confirm many events, people, places and customs recorded in scripture (Bible). Archaelogically evidence is continuous and non stop of the Bible and verifys its reliability. Next, the Bible has hundreds of prophesies in it that has come true and its not by chance, common sense. One example, in the Book of Daniel written in 530 B.C. accurately predicts the progression of kingdoms from Babylon through the Medo-Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and Roman Empire. This includes the persecution and suffering of the jews under Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the freedom for the jews under Judas Maccabeus, 165 B.C.

This presupposes that the book of Daniel was writteen in 530 BC rather than around 165 BC.

It is statistically unreal that any or all of the Bible's specific prophesies could have been fulfilled by good guessing or deliberate deceit.

Perhaps you could point to an unbiased, honest, statistically valid, examination because I've yet to see one despite asking. The evidence presented by the standard set of apologists is not statistically valid - for starters they don't even a method for determining whether or not a biblical passage is a prophesy before it's 'fullfillment'.

 

[arensb]

God is infinite, holy, all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, divine, eternal, supernatural and is a Spirit. You can't see God with your natural eyes but you can with your spiritual eyes.
[...]
[The Bible is] a spiritual book

Could you please define "spirit" and "spiritual", as I asked in the OP?

 

[arensb]

Okay, it's starting to sound as though God (or gods?) is not made of the normal sorts of matter we see around us every day: protons, electrons, photons, neutrinos, etc.

Yup.

Okay, so what is God made of? Some people have said "spirit", but I have no idea what that means, except as a handwaving metaphor for unspecified mental processes or characteristics (e.g., "spirit of the law" as shorthand for "what the people who wrote the law were intending to achieve").

 

[ebia]

Okay, so what is God made of?

How the heck should I know? God-stuff. The only substances we know about are ones that are part of creation. God, as the only thing not created, if he can be said to be 'made' of anything at all is made of stuff I can't experience separate from him since he is the only thing made from it.

I'm not sure if it makes sense to say God is made of anything though. He just is and always has been.

So, take your pick from:
1/ God-stuff that I can't know anything about.
2/ He isn't made of anything.

 

[arensb]

I think you are toying with us as FallingWaters said. You know very well that when Jesus said "my sheep know my voice" he was not talking about animals. Stop playing games with us.

Yes, I was being a smart-ass, and I'd like to apologize.

But the reason that I entitled this thread "What is "God"?" rather than "Who is God?" is that I'd like to get down to brass tacks, the nitty-gritty, where the rubber meets the road, to the most down-to-earth, pragmatic level I can, but no one seems to want to go there. I'm not asking about what God talks to you about, I'm asking what his voice sounds like, whether he's a baritone or a tenor, that sort of thing.

I'd also like to point out that no one has yet even attempted to answer the first part of my question, namely "what is a deity?" I understand that y'all believe that there is one and only one deity in the universe, but if there were a second one, how would you know? What criteria do you use to decide whether some entity is a deity or not? If Thor or Brahma or Superman or the Flying Spaghetti Monster really existed, would you consider any of them to be deities?