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What is God?

FullyAmbivalent

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This is a question that I also could answer simply, but I am looking for something deeper.

What is God?

I popular answer is "the God of the Bible" but if you really look at the character of "God" in the bible, we do not find something that is all powerful, all loving, all forgiving, all knowing. We have nothing more then a childish fool who cannot even keep tract of one mortal (Adam). So what is God? Is the God described in Genesis the literal God? Or is the character of God in the bible simply a way to explore something that we do not know; An idea or philosophy of human experience that has nothing to do with God? But if that is so, what is God. Most of us agree that there is a God, although most of us will not agree on what God is. But do any of us really know? Is it really important to know? We divide ourselves into different religions (count atheistic) that define what God is in a different way or take a different approach to connecting with God, but if you look at it from a distance we are all trying to do the same thing. We are trying to explain something huge that we have no knowledge about with a vocabulary that is small and limited, but in the end, no matter the difference of the method, we are all looking for the same thing and looking at the same thing; just different names, and different myths, and different rituals; All different, but the same. Perhaps that is our problem. We look at it from a worldly prospective and separate ourselves because of ideas, and we lose the real meaning.

So... What is God.
And... Does it really matter if we know?
 
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Soldier_GJ

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"God" is a character in a very old story. Created a long time ago to provide an answer to some rather unanswerable questions, and to act as a refuge and support prop for those that find they need it. Now, like CHinese Whispers, the whole concept of "God" may have been warped to the point where it no longer resmbles the original concept. For reference, see the distortion and *******isation of Christmas from the Germanic Pagan Festival of Yule to the commercial exploitation of personal wealth we experience each December.

Well, it's one opinion...
 
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Lithium Hobo

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God is an invention of man. The most powerful of inventions at that. It has the power to shape the lives of entire civilizations and warp their image of life to itself. It's a safety blanket to keep people warm at night. An answer to questions people can't or wont answer. It was there when invented to help answer questions quicker and easier, but time for play is over.
 
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Angel4Truth

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FullyAmbivalent said:
This is a question that I also could answer simply, but I am looking for something deeper.

I popular answer is "the God of the Bible" but if you really look at the character of "God" in the bible, we do not find something that is all powerful, all loving, all forgiving, all knowing. We have nothing more then a childish fool who cannot even keep tract of one mortal (Adam).

Im sorry that isnt what you find , but it is most definately what I find - as far you believing that God is a childish fool who cannot keep track of one mortal , I would have to say that perhaps your understanding for one reason or another lacks the level required for it to to be obvious that God knew very well where adam was , but wanted adam to see the fact that because of sin , He knew shame and felt the need to hide himself .

Parents often say where are you , or question their children in such a way as to imply we are asking a question , but with the answer *we already know* is merely a benefit for the child to discern the truth of the situation.

Here is something for you to read that might help you get the proper perspective on Gods loving forgiving and all knowing presence in the Old testament , you are suffering from the same kind of surface issues many people do when they havent taken the time to attempt to understand what is really happening , this will definately help so I hope you read in its entirety if you really want the truth on this - be warned though , its very heavy and the author is extremely well versed and very intelligent , so it helps to use a dictionary sometimes while reading it all .

Is God cruel or skitzoid really?
 
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HouseApe

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God is the anthropomorphization of a set of human desires, including:

1. The desire to not die.
2. The desire for protection from the uncertainties of human existence.
3. The desire for a purposeful life when you recognize that you are just 1 of billions of other human lives.
4. The desire for fairness and justice.

Mix those desires together and visualize a grandfatherly figure who can grant them for you. Call Him God. Have faith in Him. Pray to Him. Love Him with all your heart.
 
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ralrachaan

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FullyAmbivalent said:
This is a question that I also could answer simply, but I am looking for something deeper.

What is God?

I popular answer is "the God of the Bible" but if you really look at the character of "God" in the bible, we do not find something that is all powerful, all loving, all forgiving, all knowing. We have nothing more then a childish fool who cannot even keep tract of one mortal (Adam). So what is God? Is the God described in Genesis the literal God? Or is the character of God in the bible simply a way to explore something that we do not know; An idea or philosophy of human experience that has nothing to do with God? But if that is so, what is God. Most of us agree that there is a God, although most of us will not agree on what God is. But do any of us really know? Is it really important to know? We divide ourselves into different religions (count atheistic) that define what God is in a different way or take a different approach to connecting with God, but if you look at it from a distance we are all trying to do the same thing. We are trying to explain something huge that we have no knowledge about with a vocabulary that is small and limited, but in the end, no matter the difference of the method, we are all looking for the same thing and looking at the same thing; just different names, and different myths, and different rituals; All different, but the same. Perhaps that is our problem. We look at it from a worldly prospective and separate ourselves because of ideas, and we lose the real meaning.

So... What is God.
And... Does it really matter if we know?
God is in me, around me, and following me: he protects me, saves me, and has promised me an eternal life in heaven. I love him, he loves me. Since he came into my unworthy body, he has changed my life forever. He is worthy of my servitude, yet I am unworthy to be even his servant.
"You are everything to me,
More than a story,
more than words on a page of history.
You're the air that I breath,
The water I thirst for
Your the ground beneath my feet
You are everything"
 
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FullyAmbivalent

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The question of "what is God" was rhetorical. I have heard and studied each answer already given in reply before in detail. I am not lacking in knowledge on what God is to different groups. I was attempting to make a point about the conflict we cause when we fight over names and rituals, when we all are all just attempting to find the same answers but with different methods.
 
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Angel4Truth

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FullyAmbivalent , have you read the paper at the link I posted on God ? Its very informative and gives a really indepth perspective on many things you may not have considered before . I found the article very thought provoking and extremely blessing on many things I once questioned .
 
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kedaman

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Being all powerful is often misunderstood. Imagine we lived on a planet where everyone owned their own nuclear arsenal powerful enough to destroy the entire planet. Then it would be up to each and one that they still live, and if one person decided to end it all, then we would be at that person's mercy. Is that then power, that one can decide over the life of so many, when they could decide for you? We live here on earth in our fragile state, anybody could easily take the life of another, and because we believe in it, we have guarded ourselves against each other by worshipping a man made god, a god who punishes them who does it, that they who don't wouldn't have to be so vulnerable. This god is an image, that derives its power from men, but gives you a false sense of security, because of this.

A man however more dependendent on things subject to the power of others, we know have less power because they are more vulnerable and are thus easier to control. In the same way a man more independent on things subject to the power of others, has more power because they are less vulnerable and are harder to control. But be not decieved that being the latter makes you more spiritual, for no matter how hard it is, if that vulnerability exists, then their power has a limit and can be won over. My first example is of a world without any order, namely this world.

Any two such entities that each is subject to the other have no order relation. Being an authority over something, you can have no such vulnerabilities that would make you subject to that which you have authority over, meaning one cannot be dependent on that which one has authority over, but on the contrary that which is subject to the authority of one depends on the author. Authority is hence a strict order relation. The power that an author has over its creation is unlimited, that is it cannot be won over by its creation.

Before we go on to the spiritual realm, we need to go back to this world, one must ask whether there exist such a thing as causality, which is clearly an order relation. According to Hume's analysis on causality, we have no legitimate knowledge of such in experience:
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/distance/hume/comment2.html
and according to Kant, causality is an innate concept, by which we judge objects of our experience to be connected in such order relation, the difference with Hume here being that Hume is talking about Causality between things in themselves, and its illegitimacy while Kant talks about causality of appearance, a legitimate approach.
http://huizen.daxis.nl/~henkt/kant-prologemena.html
Basically for Kant our mind is a knife cutting trough the cake that is the world, in such pieces we call objects that are causally related, but this cut is arbitrary, although absolute a priori. According to Hume, we have no definitive self either, but according to Kant, it is the knife, so beware not to cut a piece of the world for yourself, because that is the basis of idoltery.

Language, math, logic, and science, all belongs to the spiritual realm, because they describe objects connected by order relations, giving meaning to things by shaping what we see. They are not made out of appearance Hebrews 11:3. There is no reason why things would be "clearly seen" given only sense experience, where it not for judgement of the understanding, which gives us "no excuse", in the sense Hume could not discover an excuse for the ball in collision with the other not to respond per how he does understand the concept of collision and collision repononse. Did you know we have such authority over things of the world? To see things clearly? Is it hard to imagine your knowledge is a product of choice, that is who you are?

Being all powerful is then something very different, because we have now clearly quantified power. We see things in possible states of existence, the knowledge of which configuration is defined as raw power. Authority fullfilling the condition of order relation, we know is transitive, meaning if one has authority over another who has authority over a third, the third is also subject to the authority of the first, which gives us the hierarchy of authority. We need to define another relation. We know a product is given by the sum of conditions of which it has been produced, so also is a source the union of the conditions under which the products has been made. The source of all creation is then the supreme authority of all things made, to which supreme authority each must submit.

That should encompass being all knowing likewise.

All loving then?

Love is the keyword of the two greatest commandments that encompass all of scripture.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,
and
Love your neighbour as yourself.

Some may think love is an emotion, but how can you command a feeling? To quote Kant on this,
"It is in this manner, undoubtedly, that we are to understand those passages of Scripture also in which we are commanded to love our neighbor, even our enemy. For love, as an affection, cannot be commanded, but beneficence for duty's sake may; even though we are not impelled to it by any inclination- nay, are even repelled by a natural and unconquerable aversion. This is practical love and not pathological- a love which is seated in the will, and not in the propensions of sense -- in principles of action and not of tender sympathy; and it is this love alone which can be commanded."

"Practical love" is a love of the will, an attitude that puts the object before the subject, note not for the sake of the object, but for the sake of the essense of the subject, because the essense of the subject is that of love to the object, and were this to be conditioned to the object, would we have the love of a hypocrite, who's love is not all encompassing, but a show that you put on to have access to their love.

A) God's wrath, B) the existence of evil are common objections to the possibility of an all loving God, but they are without merit.

Evil if often connotated with harm and suffering. The real meaning of evil is immorality or "foolishness", which we can see results in suffering for others. One would ask if God is good, why doesn't he wipe out all evil? Strangely enough this seems contrary to the first objection. The answer is the possibility that evil is a temporary condition and God gives one time to repent. Note that there is no such thing as pure evil, and that it is always composite of something else, and the dissolving of this composite, is two fold: It brings wrath upon the wicked who love the composite, and it purifies the repentant who love the atomary (unperishable) nature they have been reborn in. Two birds with one stone. Thus God's love is no way contrary with his justice.
 
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HouseApe

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FullyAmbivalent said:
The question of "what is God" was rhetorical. I have heard and studied each answer already given in reply before in detail. I am not lacking in knowledge on what God is to different groups. I was attempting to make a point about the conflict we cause when we fight over names and rituals, when we all are all just attempting to find the same answers but with different methods.

I would argue that you must fight over names and rituals because of the concept of Hell. Sounds crazy? Hear me out.

I previously posted that we all have the same desires (atheists included):

1. The desire to not die.
2. The desire for protection from the uncertainties of human existence.
3. The desire for a purposeful life when you recognize that you are just 1 of billions of other human lives.
4. The desire for fairness and justice.

Theists have faith these desires are attainable. With Hell in the equation though you must take some positive actions in order to attain your desires. But which ones? If your faith leads you to believe that the consequence of selecting the wrong ones is Hell, then what could be more important?

Those positive actions are the names and rituals. Must you be baptized? Must you pray to Mekkah 5 times a day? For some theists, these are things that are well worth fighting over.
 
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FullyAmbivalent

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Again, my post was not really about what God is, but rather why we insist on fighting over our own personal view of what God is, when in reality God is not different to different faiths just the method for attaining a connection to or with God.
 
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Phred

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FullyAmbivalent said:
So... What is God.
And... Does it really matter if we know?

I believe God(s) is/are our answer to that which we do not know. Looking back in time we had first the expansion of many gods. A god for rain and a god for thunder, gods for harvests and gods for emotions. I believe this is a direct result of our being able to observe causality. We could see that when we threw a spear it hit the antelope and the antelope died. Now, when people changed from saying, "the spear killed the deer" to "Grok killed the deer" that was the first step. We began to understand cause and effect.

Someone noticed that whenever it rained, there were clouds present. So clouds must make it rain. But what makes clouds? A deity was the only answer, because there MUST be a cause. Imagine that you're the wise man of a tribe. You're sitting around a fire one night and someone asks you what the moon is... you're supposedly the smartest one there. What do you do? Say, "I dunno..."? Of course not, you tell them it's a deity. You tell them the sun is a blazing chariot driven by a god.

Maybe you need to get some soldiers to defend your land. How do you get them to fight like demons if they might die from the infection of a scratch? You perpetuate a myth that dying in battle will get you to Odin's table in Valhalla. Or it'll get you 70-some virgins in paradise. That still works today. People do horrible things thinking they'll get an eternal reward. Look at 9/11 or Eric Rudolph.

Monetheism comes along later, as we slowly eliminate gods due to our growing knowledge. We eliminate the need for angels to push planets around when Newton figures out gravity. What we're left with are gaps. And, that's what most people believe in, a God of the gaps.

Mankind created gods. If there's a real one out there someplace, I don't believe it's any of those religion worships.

.
 
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jayem

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HouseApe said:
God is the anthropomorphization of a set of human desires, including:

1. The desire to not die.
2. The desire for protection from the uncertainties of human existence.
3. The desire for a purposeful life when you recognize that you are just 1 of billions of other human lives.
4. The desire for fairness and justice.

Mix those desires together and visualize a grandfatherly figure who can grant them for you. Call Him God. Have faith in Him. Pray to Him. Love Him with all your heart.

Well said! What would you think about one more point? It might be part and parcel of #2, but I think it's important enough to be considered on its own:

5. The desire to be part of a group.

Humans evolved as social beings. We have a strong tribal instinct. Acceptance of a common diety is a useful way to reinforce the social bonds in a clan or group. (I think it was Desmond Morris who wrote that supreme beings are a common feature of most, if not all societies, because they take the place of the alpha males who led the tribes to which our primate ancestors belonged. It's an interesting theory, but I don't know if I'd go that far with it.) Reinforcing social cohesion is certainly why "religion" evolved. And I think belief in gods is a component of this. Would you agree?
 
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HouseApe

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jayem said:
Well said! What would you think about one more point? It might be part and parcel of #2, but I think it's important enough to be considered on its own:

5. The desire to be part of a group.

Humans evolved as social beings. We have a strong tribal instinct. Acceptance of a common diety is a useful way to reinforce the social bonds in a clan or group. (I think it was Desmond Morris who wrote that supreme beings are a common feature of most, if not all societies, because they take the place of the alpha males who led the tribes to which our primate ancestors belonged. It's an interesting theory, but I don't know if I'd go that far with it.) Reinforcing social cohesion is certainly why "religion" evolved. And I think belief in gods is a component of this. Would you agree?

I don't know about the desire to be part of a group, I might make it more specific: the desire to have good leadership of the group, which in turn leads to stronger social cohesion.

You can imagine that when people lived in small tribal groups, individuals personally knew the tribal leader and probably selected that person as leader based on ability. When you are a part of a much larger society and your distant king is obviously a malevolent idiot, wouldn't it make sense to have your "real" leader be all-wise and all-powerful? Allowing for social cohesion to be maintained even when your society periodically collapses due to inept human leadership.
 
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*Starlight*

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FullyAmbivalent said:
So... What is God.
And... Does it really matter if we know?
I think that God is the soul of the Universe, and the underlying cosmic force which is the base of everything that exists... but I don't really know! And I don't think that it really matters... :)

Wow, I sound like a pantheist! ;)
 
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lilmissmontana

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God is everything to me. There is nothing that he is not about. The biggest thing I can think of that he is is truth. What he is to anyone else simply is none of my business. That is God's business and unless he makes a request of me I make a point of staying out of it. The only exception to that that I can think of is in witnessing and praying. That would be a whole different thread. Thank you for asking. Belle :)
 
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