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What is eternal life?

godshapedhole

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell. I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Now I know this doesn't really address the issue of Jesus coming back to take those who are already dead, but one thing at a time...
 

Greg J.

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You've pegged it. Eternal life is not just a reference to everlasting existence. (Those who have condemned themselves will have everlasting existence, too.)

Eternal life is life with a different nature, and you pretty much said explained it well, but it isn't just for this life. It is for the next one as well. Perhaps you can understand what Jesus meant when he said we will never die (John 11:25-26). Our rebirth in Christ is not altered just because our body dies. He is eternal and and we are reborn a new creature in him.

Note that experiencing a Christian's new eternal life is different than just having it. We experience it according to our faith in God (which he grants through obedience). So, new Christians don't (usually) experience it much, but those who have been struggling to trust the Lord in everything for a long time do. Life, with experiencing God living through you, is a much different kind of experience of life than those who have not been reborn in Christ (or Christians who haven't taken obedience seriously enough).
 
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aiki

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell.

The Bible doesn't teach that disciples of Jesus will live forever up in Heaven with God. Instead, Scripture describes our world being burned up (2Pe. 3:7, 10; Rev. 21:1) and replaced by "a new heavens and a new Earth wherein dwells righteousness" and a new Jerusalem descending from God to it in which God's children will dwell and Christ the Lamb will reign. (2Pe. 3:13; Rev. 21-22:5) Hell, however, is pretty much as you've described it.

As someone who doesn't give any serious credence to the divine revelation of the Bible, I can understand why you haven't "bought into" what the Bible says awaits us at the End of Days. There is, though, little real ambiguity about what the Bible outlines as the future and eternal fate of the righteous and the wicked.

I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

Hell is God's "reward" for the wicked as the new Jerusalem is His reward for the righteous in Christ. These rewards are established by God, not us, however. They are expressions of who God is, not the fantasies of self-centered and greedy and/or fear-mongering people.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

Eternal life is not a power or ability God confers on us but a Person: Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


Receiving eternal life in Christ does not preclude an eternal existence in the new Jerusalem described in the Revelation. These aren't mutually exclusive things. Is there some reason you think they should be? The Bible teaches both things as the blessing of God upon the believer.

Hell is separation from God (among other things) - but not just in the here and now. Scripture is very clear that Hell will be the future eternal condition of the unrepentant wicked. (Matt. 25:46; 2Thess. 1:7-9) You are right, though, that Hell stands as a sort of opposite to an eternal life in Christ with God.

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Well, it is during our life on this Earth that we must receive the Saviour who is eternal life. So, at the moment we by faith trust in Christ as our Saviour and submit to him as Lord, we have eternal life. It is in doing so that we receive the gift of eternal salvation who is Christ Himself (Ro. 10:9, 10). Remember, "he who has the Son has everlasting life." (Jn. 3:36)

Selah.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell. I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Now I know this doesn't really address the issue of Jesus coming back to take those who are already dead, but one thing at a time...

As was mentioned, the Christian hope isn't to spend eternity in some place called "Heaven", it's in the resurrection of the dead (of the body) and life of the future age when God makes all things new, in the renewal of creation.

I think it can be easy to imagine that "eternal life" is simply saying, "living forever", but I think that conception is perhaps on the shallow end. It's not that it doesn't mean that, it's just that that isn't necessarily the big point.

If we dig a bit to grasp the underlying context of the Gospels and, in fact, the entire New Testament and the Church we do well to understand the thorough Jewishness of that history and context. While Judaism was hardly a monolithic religion in the first century, the rather mainstream Jewish views of the day--expressed in Pharisaism, and all things considered Jesus was a Pharisee and Christianity happened within a very Pharisaic context (Paul himself was, or at least had been before his conversion, a Pharisee)--maintained a belief that history did have a conclusion. The conclusion, the direction and momentum of history, was toward the Messiah and the Messianic age; now what precisely all that meant wasn't always necessarily all that clear, but there were some pretty central ideas--we see glimpses of it in the writings of the Prophets who speak of a time of future justice for the world, of future peace for the world, a time when the nations will come and worship the God of Israel on His holy mountain. And this idea of a future world, well this was the Olam Ha'ba, or "Age to Come" and it was a pretty important idea at the time, and along with it the belief in the resurrection of the dead. While these weren't necessarily central ideas in Judaism, these are the central ideas in Christianity.

When we confess that Jesus is the Christ, that means the Messiah, and if the Messiah has come (as we claim He has) then that means something rather significant. Indeed the Messiah's coming indicated that the rule of God had come to earth, the Messiah was, if nothing else, the viceroy or representative of God's reign, the kingdom of God on earth, interrupting the oppressive powers and bringing not only deliverance to Israel but, indeed, the justice and peace of God to the whole earth. And, well, that's kind of what Jesus was always talking about, the kingdom of God. In fact, that's what the Gospels themselves are about: the story of God as king in and through Jesus the Messiah. In the first century would-be messiahs claiming to bring about these things weren't in short supply, it happened every few years and the end result was always the same: Rome came in heavy handed and people died.

Jesus' story is different for two reasons:

1. Jesus was not preaching a hostile political rebellion against the Romans.
2. Jesus didn't stay dead.

Both are crucially important, but the latter is the most important bit.

Jesus didn't stay dead, and of course as noted resurrection was supposed to be part of the whole Messiah and Olam Ha'ba thing; but in Christianity this whole course of thought is transformed and reshaped in and under Jesus. Read the 15th chapter of St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, where Paul makes his argument that Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection, and the rest shall be raised at His coming in the future.

See in Christianity this idea of kingdom is in a sense split between the now and yet to come.

So let's talk about eternal life. Properly speaking, I would argue, the principal meaning isn't "life forever" but rather it is life of the future age. The word translated to "eternal" doesn't really mean eternal in Greek, it is the word aionion, the adjective form of aion, or age. The life we hope for is life in the age to come, in the resurrection of the dead, in that future world--and that is almost certainly what any of Jesus' hearers would have understood it to mean. But Jesus' death and resurrection means it's not just a life we hope to have some day, it becomes a present reality now because we share and participate in the reality of that future world now, in faith, by the Holy Spirit. Which is why St. Paul writes in his letter to the Romans that all who have been baptized have been baptized into Christ's death, being buried with Him by baptism, and sharing in His death we also share in His resurrection and life. That is a present reality as well as a future hope. In Romans the Apostle also says that, "If the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead also dwells in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies." The Holy Spirit, who makes us alive together in Christ with God, is--in a sense--God's promise to us of that future life and a participation in that life today through faith.

We share in God's life, by grace, even now in the hope of that future life when in fact the body is raised incorruptible from the dead (just as Christ was) to dwell and live with God forever right here on God's green, renewed, earth. So it certainly is more than just "living forever", it is that life which--properly speaking--belongs to the Risen Christ and which we share in, by grace through faith, in the hope of our own resurrection on the final day.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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juvenissun

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell. I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Now I know this doesn't really address the issue of Jesus coming back to take those who are already dead, but one thing at a time...

Eternal life is so rich. Take one thing at a time:
We, this life, will literally die.
Eternal life means: We, another life, will not literally die.
This will solve some of the problems in the OP. We, now, are NOT in our eternal life.

If interested, we can talk about other things about the eternal life.
 
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Greg J.

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A person that is saved has the promised eternal life already. How much he is experiencing of it is another matter. His body will die (or be transformed in the rapture), but he will never die. Death no longer holds any mastery over him.
 
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Serving Zion

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell. I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Now I know this doesn't really address the issue of Jesus coming back to take those who are already dead, but one thing at a time...
You seem to be describing the new life we receive when we are born again. This is the change in our life, when we realise that we have lived in a way contrary to God's instruction to us, and we choose to repent and accept His forgiveness by covenant in Jesus' name.

While we were determined to live contrary to His righteousness, we excluded Him from our life so that we couldn't have the fullness of joy and holy character - the things which come from knowing He loves us, approves of us, and that we can trust in His goodness. If we are born-again, then our relationship with God restored, and we are gifted with the fullness of joy, hope and insight because we come to understand His purposes.

As long as we are faithful to Him, God will make us keep growing into the person He desires us to be (John 15) so that He can achieve many great things with us. Jesus says that if we remain in union with Him (by continually observing His reminders and living by obedience), then He will raise us up on the last day to be where He is (John 14:2-3, John 6:40).

Not everyone will choose to repent though. Some will choose to forfeit everlasting life in exchange for temporal pleasures (Mark 9:43-48, Luke 12:4-6). Some people will want to live in heaven and also be a sinner. They will seek-out preachers who sell cheap assurance (2 Timothy 4:3, 2 Corinthians 2:17).

So, Christianity is not about waiting for death so life can begin, but that our new life, which never ends, begins when we receive salvation in Christ!

John 8:51, 1 Corinthians 15:51.
 
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cjohn198

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Since I was a child, the thought of eternity, either in heaven or in hell always scared me. Just being somewhere for the rest of time regardless of heaven or hell always scared me. Even if I was in Heaven, it seems as though it would get 'boring' for lack of a better word.
I recently have been struggling through some hard times, and had (still having) a crisis of faith if you will. Up until a few days ago I never really believed people who said they had visions or divine dream. To be honest, I thought the people who made these claims were people just looking for attention. That changed though when I had two of the most real dreams I have ever had. In one dream, an angel or celestial being came to me and took me into clouds filled with the light of the Lord. The other was quite opposite, as i found myself in a world that had been burnt to a crisp, filled with soot, and filled with torment. Not exactly sure what they mean yet, but I did experience one thing that i could have never grasped before.
These dreams were without time. As time has always been a part of human life, experiencing a life without time was mind blowing. Im not saying i experienced what is eternity but what i am saying is i experienced what it is like to be in eternity.
For my whole life, I, and everyone who has taught me about eternity has compared it to a never ending time. Ive been told that eternity is just like time never stops. My dreams though showed me otherwise. Im not sure if any of you believe in divine dreams, as a matter of fact, I'm not even entirely sure that these were divine, however these dreams that I had did show me what it eternity would be like.
As I said, people often compare eternity with time. However from this dream i now look at eternity entirely different. I no longer compare eternity with an infinite time. "Why?", you might be thinking. This is why: In my dreams there was no concept of time, it was like i never even knew what time was. Not to get too into the logic of it but basically for events to happen and to experience things, it must mean that time is moving forward. Picture this, each event is a rung on a latter, and each step you take up the latter take time to get to the next rung. So wouldn't that have to mean eternity has to have some sort of concept of time? The experience i have had showed other wise. In order to have a dream, it must mean that events happen, as dreams are not just static images, they are experiences, things you go through, sort of like a movie, so that means time passes, right? Wrong, my dreams had events, but each event had no measure of time to it. For example in my dream, an angel/celestial being appeared to me, took my hand, placed me on its back, took me into the sky and made its way to these clouds filled with light. So the event of me flying, i experienced, but with no correlation of time. The event happened but for how long, there was no answer to. the event lasted for however long i seemed to want it to last. I think of flying though the sky with this eagle in one way and it seems like it could have been ten minutes, but i think of it again another way and it could have been 10 years. It didn't matter how long or short it took because the nature of eternity has no correlation with time.
I find the infinity sign or the number 8 to be a one of the closest ways to grasp this. Imagine there is a dot moving along the line of the number 8. It is moving, events are happening, but it doesn't stop. Another way that i could best describe it, would be like if life had a play button, fast forward button, slow motion button, and a reverse button. Imagine combining all of those buttons and what they did into one button. Like a universal speed button. It fast forwarded, slo-mo'd, reversed, and played all at the same time. Trippy, i know, but that was what it was like. It was like i could make an event last for however long i could imagine it to last, then choose to go to the next event when I wanted to. Another way i could compare this is flipping through the pages of a book. I can take my time and read every word of every page from start to finish, or i can thumb through them from start to finish in a matter of seconds, perhaps I could thumb through them from finish to start, I could even just stay on one page forever. I could read every word of the book backwards from finish to start. I could even read left to right of each page but flip the pages from finish to start, i could even read the word from right to left but starting at the first page and ending on the last page. The point I'm trying to make was that eternity isn't just like reading the book like how we were taught to read the book, (from left to right, start to finish, in chronological order) it is like any way you 'view' and 'expirence' each event. As for the fear of eternity becoming 'boring' imagine the best page of this book and the event that happens in the book. Once you read it one time, its like wow that was amazing! but the second time you read it, you already know what is going to happen because you know what will happen, so if you kept reading it over and over and over and continuously read the same page, after a while it would get really really boring and less appealing each time, to the point where you would almost become annoyed by it. However, to compare this with this abstract idea of eternity, reading the same page over and over would never get boring. Why? Because once you read this page and started reading it the second time, it would be like reading it for the first time, like you had never read it before. Each time you read it, the experience is just as good as the first. I kind of compares to the law of diminishing returns, as you keep doing something it gives you less and less of the experience each time, but throw the law of diminishing returns out the window when in eternity.


I am no expert in logic, so I don't know if this is a sound comparison. This is the best way i could possibly try to put it into words.

What are your thoughts?
 
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crossnote

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I've always had a bit of trouble with the concept of the afterlife in Christianity. I never bought into the idea that when we die we spend eternity in a nice place called Heaven with God, or we go to eternal torment and torture in Hell. I saw the idea of Heaven as something self-centred and greedy, that you couldn't just be content with the life God gives you here on Earth, but that people want to live forever, and Hell on the other hand as being fear-mongering nonsense.

But reading John I wondered if I'm completely missing the point. Is the eternal life Jesus promises not some magical afterlife, but the promise of receiving eternal oneness with and closeness to God in this life, here and now? As opposed to those on whom "God's wrath remains" (John 3:36)? i.e. Hell being the state of being alive, but greatly distant from God?

The verse that really stood out to me was John 13-14, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” This seems to imply that it's in this life of the Samaritan woman that she can receive "eternal life", to be with God.

Now I know this doesn't really address the issue of Jesus coming back to take those who are already dead, but one thing at a time...
I would view it from the perspective of the 'unnaturalness of death'.
All of life recoils at death and man fears it. This is because death is an external invasion of life (hence the Fall) and was originally not meant to be. Christ conquered death so that after this fallen creation passes (including our bodies) there will be a new creation where death will not be present...hence, eternal life. The Christian should not fear death for the body will be dissolved and later resurrected, yet his spirit goes on living into the Life to come.
 
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