What is Born Again?

[Adventist Dissident]

I have been recently introudced to a different view of the nature of man. I would like to have your thoughts on this?

The SDA View of man

is
Dust + Breath = Living Soul/person
t\
in this view the dust is given live by God. God imparts to the dust it's life force and it become a living berathing person, full grown. that is a given


AT death the body returns to dust and the lifefource returns to God.

1. AT the fall something changed. but what? Adam and EvE still had a body and breath. What changed?

2. They did not die right away, then what did die?

3. upon being born again what is born again? the body is not and the life force is not then what is?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] Did you ever wonder why so many people make such a big deal about "the day"
As in: "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely..

When so many other translations use the more sensible "when"

Gen 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." (NIV) See Also the New Living Translation and the New English Bible

As the New English Bible notes:
"On the day that : idiomatic for "when""

It makes so more more sense that way doesn't it. But whoa be it from me to suggest that someone can read without being woodenly literal!

You have to wonder why this story was so easily understood through out Jewish history yet to modern Christians they seem to think it only makes sense if a person's spirit died on that very day. Even though that would have made no sense to the people of ancient Israel and it would make no sense to God's plan if people lost their ability to have a spiritual relationship with God.
[/FONT]

 

[StormyOne]

when Adam and Eve ate, they knew they had disobeyed a directive.... and that put strain on their relationship with each other and with their Creator.... I do not subscribe to the idea that something in humans died when sin occurred..... likewise the "born again" term is a idea put forth suggesting that we start over, that we re-align ourselves to our Creator....

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Alternately "born again" is translated "born from Above". The start of a new life connected with God.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

but what is "born from Above"? You still have not answered this question.

the flesh is not, the life force is not.

I have heard answer that is pretty good.

the part that knows God.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Born Again: when you begin trusting in Christ's character, nature, and work as the means to a restored relationship with God

 

[sentipente]

when Adam and Eve ate, they knew they had disobeyed a directive.... and that put strain on their relationship with each other and with their Creator.... I do not subscribe to the idea that something in humans died when sin occurred..... likewise the "born again" term is a idea put forth suggesting that we start over, that we re-align ourselves to our Creator....

Bingo.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

when Adam and Eve ate, they knew they had disobeyed a directive.... and that put strain on their relationship with each other and with their Creator.... I do not subscribe to the idea that something in humans died when sin occurred..... likewise the "born again" term is a idea put forth suggesting that we start over, that we re-align ourselves to our Creator....

jesus subscribed to the idea that something had to change? What was it? as far as reallinging ourselves where is that in the bible? If there is not a change of some kind then we will become unalligned

 

[sentipente]

jesus subscribed to the idea that something had to change?

He did? How do you know this?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

He did? How do you know this?

john 3

unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[AndrewK788]

Indeed.

"In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." John 3:3 (NIV)

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

jesus subscribed to the idea that something had to change? What was it? as far as reallinging ourselves where is that in the bible? If there is not a change of some kind then we will become unalligned

So your looking for some other change besides trusting God? As in going from a self centered existence to a God and other people centered existence. I always though that was a pretty radical change.

 

[elijahorao]

To be 'born again', you must look at what you have become, admit the resultant person is not right. Recognise that you have a lifetime of learned behaviour and habits to review and censor. Understand and accept that the child you were grew up into the wrong adult. Turn to God through Jesus, understanding that the invitation "Behold I stand at the door and knock" is an invitation to have the ultimate holy spiritual Mentor enter into your person and raise you up again (into a new creature). Understanding this we should enter the waters of baptism as symbolic of dying to the old life/self and being ressurected. Then, (if we have asked believing), we become born of The Spirit which is sown into us as a seed (and a promised gift) and if honoured and not grieved will produce fruit in us (for God will do nothing against our will) by the same power that spoke and worked through Jesus. Christ in us the hope of glory IF allowed to mature, will convert us by raising us up in a new life with a transformed character.

 

[StormyOne]

jesus subscribed to the idea that something had to change? What was it? as far as reallinging ourselves where is that in the bible? If there is not a change of some kind then we will become unalligned

you need the bible to tell you that your relationship with your Creator is not as it should be? When a married couple is not on the same page then don't need a book to tell them that something is amiss.... so I am trying to understand, unless the bible says it then what? Does the bible tell us how to be "born again?" Does it tell us how a relationship with God will look like? Does the bible define what a follower of God will look like?

My point is that all that God wants of us cannot be contained within "the bible."

 

[AndrewK788]

you need the bible to tell you that your relationship with your Creator is not as it should be? When a married couple is not on the same page then don't need a book to tell them that something is amiss.... so I am trying to understand, unless the bible says it then what? Does the bible tell us how to be "born again?" Does it tell us how a relationship with God will look like? Does the bible define what a follower of God will look like?

My point is that all that God wants of us cannot be contained within "the bible."

Certainly you weren't undermining the Bible's importance?

I don't think the Bible gives a ton of specifics but upon reading through the whole NT I think the answers to your questions become evident for someone who is searching for them. So I'm not sure if you meant them to be rhetorical questions or not.

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13 (NIV)

I believe the Holy Spirit is fully capable of guiding people in ways the Bible could not, but at the same time, without the Holy Spirit guiding you, there is much of the Bible people wouldn't understand anyway. So without the Holy Spirit in you, the Bible would be just a book, as you called it, and nothing special.

"He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason that you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8: 47 (NIV)

So there's no misunderstanding, that last text is NOT aimed at you, Stormy, just a text I used to back my point.