What is belief?

[Firefall]

Belief isn't just as simple as holding certain assertions to be scientifically true.

Mark 9:23-2423 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Belief in terms of saving belief, is trust, it is faithfulness and loyalty, it is where your heart lies. It is your heart seeking to know God and Jesus, and to bring your life in proper alignment with them. It doesn't always go hand-in-hand with head-assent to "facts" as the story of the poor father of the afflicted son in Mark.

(And I don't insist that the Bible be "factual" as much as I rely on it being theologically true.)

I agree 100% with this. Check out:

"For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:10

The heart is the 'wellspring' of life (Proverbs 4:23). It is where God indwells, where our deeper emotions, thoughts and memories are as opposed to our physical sensory emotions, factual knowledge and short term memory etc.
The heart is where we wrestle with realities.

It sounds like you are wrestling with a reality and this is good since it comes from the heart. If you are to believe without factual knowledge, then you must also primarily use your heart, instead of your mind.

For practicality, I suggest getting your hands on a good Christian Creation vs. Evolution book or DVD, or even visiting that particular forum on this site. What you will find is that whilst creation, being supernatural, transcends our finite knowledge in it's actual act - true science heavily agrees with the effects of Creation.

Evolution is just a whole lot of hypothesis making which is socially spread as fact, when it actually has no basis in it at all.

 

[Polycarp1]

"Belief" is used in English for three quite different things, and that's where the problem lies:

1 . It means something that you have confidence is the truth but which you cannot prove. "I believe that the ivory-billed woodpecker is not extinct" says nothing about faith, but rather that while I cannot produce ironclad proof, the evidence has convinced me that it's extremely likely that that bird still exists as a living species.

2. Faith or trust. "I believe in Jesus Christ" means that I put my whole faith and trust in Him and His salvific work. "I believe in you" means that I trust you.

3. "Facts" known by theology and/or logic regarding the Triune God and the religion which He established. "The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is the most widespread Christian belief" says nothing about faith and trust or about the relative level of certitude of that doctrine, but rather speaks of it as information regarding which God it is in whom one puts one faith or trust. It's not the Jewish conception of the LORD God Almighty, or the Islamic conception of Allah, or the Hindu conception of Brahman, but the Christian conception of God the Three in One, in whom I believe and trust.

Does that help any?

 

[Polycarp1]

PS: YEC vs. theistic evolution, etc., are all ways of explaining how God created. Scripture as repertorial truth vs. story vs. allegory vs. whatever are ways of understanding how the Bible conveys God's truth to us. They're means of manipulating data, not concerns of faith in my sense #2.

I believe in God in sense #2. I believe in God as Creator of all things in sense #3. I believe in the theory of evolution in sense #1. I understand Genesis 1-10 as story in sense #3, as a means of interpreting Scripture that corresponds with the scholarly understanding of (a) how the Israelites preserved their cultural understanding of Him and (b) what can be discovered by purely physical, paleontological, and geological means about the world which He created.

 

[filly]

PS: YEC vs. theistic evolution, etc., are all ways of explaining how God created. Scripture as repertorial truth vs. story vs. allegory vs. whatever are ways of understanding how the Bible conveys God's truth to us. They're means of manipulating data, not concerns of faith in my sense #2.

I believe in God in sense #2. I believe in God as Creator of all things in sense #3. I believe in the theory of evolution in sense #1. I understand Genesis 1-10 as story in sense #3, as a means of interpreting Scripture that corresponds with the scholarly understanding of (a) how the Israelites preserved their cultural understanding of Him and (b) what can be discovered by purely physical, paleontological, and geological means about the world which He created.

See, I would be in line with your second paragraph. But, unlike you, accepting the theory of evolution discredits my faith. I just can't fathom why God would choose to create us in that way.

 

[rstrats]

Sabra,

OK - Thanks.

 

[Sabra]

filly:

2. No. I can believe in this. I say "can" instead of "do" because of my questions concerning God and the creation account. I guess you can say I believe in this 99.9%. The .1% remaining is a void caused by my concern over the apparent discrepancy between science and the creation account. In other words, how can I fully believe in the rest of the Bible if the first part doesn't add up?

I understand what you're going through, because I've followed the same line of questioning as you have.

It seems like evolution is really bashing your faith as you, like many others, are having trouble with what this pseudo-science says and what God says in His Word - the Bible.

If you are willing to look into this issue, then I suggest that you check out some of the resources and information from Answers in Genesis with an open mind; for example, consider the articles Evolution & creation, science & religion, facts & bias first published in Refuting Evolution by Dr Jonathan Sarfati; "It's not science" by Dr Don Batten which further looks into the preconceptions and bias that scientists have and work with. These and many more articles that I believe that if you've got an open mind and are willing to explore will find very interesting, are available at Science Q&A.

It is my prayer that by reading those articles you will come to realise that evolution isn't science, rather more philosophical, that it is a belief system about the past and not "fact," and hence, strengthen your faith. Other issues that you may be struggling relating to the creation/evolution debate can be found here. If you have any further questions, you can either raise them again or question the editor and they will do their best to answer your questions.

I agree that for us to fully believe in Christ and related issues, that we must have a reason for what we believe, rather than just faith. I pray that you will come to realise that Christianity is a logical, accurate, rational faith that is consistent with the evidence.

May God bless you and may His Holy Spirit help you (and me) to see the truth.

Edit: When you say "evolution," do you refer to the molecules-to-man type evolution? That is particularly what I am referring to in this post. The Genesis account is consistent with all the changes in living creatures that we observe in nature today. See Information Theory for more information on genetic mutations and what they tell us about evolution and its probability that it happened.

 

[filly]

filly:

2. No. I can believe in this. I say "can" instead of "do" because of my questions concerning God and the creation account. I guess you can say I believe in this 99.9%. The .1% remaining is a void caused by my concern over the apparent discrepancy between science and the creation account. In other words, how can I fully believe in the rest of the Bible if the first part doesn't add up?

I understand what you're going through, because I've followed the same line of questioning as you have.

It seems like evolution is really bashing your faith as you, like many others, are having trouble with what this pseudo-science says and what God says in His Word - the Bible.

If you are willing to look into this issue, then I suggest that you check out some of the resources and information from Answers in Genesis with an open mind; for example, consider the articles Evolution & creation, science & religion, facts & bias first published in Refuting Evolution by Dr Jonathan Sarfati; "It's not science" by Dr Don Batten which further looks into the preconceptions and bias that scientists have and work with. These and many more articles that I believe that if you've got an open mind and are willing to explore will find very interesting, are available at Science Q&A.

It is my prayer that by reading those articles you will come to realise that evolution isn't science, rather more philosophical, that it is a belief system about the past and not "fact," and hence, strengthen your faith. Other issues that you may be struggling relating to the creation/evolution debate can be found here. If you have any further questions, you can either raise them again or question the editor and they will do their best to answer your questions.

I agree that for us to fully believe in Christ and related issues, that we must have a reason for what we believe, rather than just faith. I pray that you will come to realise that Christianity is a logical, accurate, rational faith that is consistent with the evidence.

May God bless you and may His Holy Spirit help you (and me) to see the truth.

Edit: When you say "evolution," do you refer to the molecules-to-man type evolution? That is particularly what I am referring to in this post. The Genesis account is consistent with all the changes in living creatures that we observe in nature today. See Information Theory for more information on genetic mutations and what they tell us about evolution and its probability that it happened.

Thanks, Sabra, I will look into that site. I have never visited it before because I was under the impression that it was similar to that Dr. Dino wacko I've heard about.