What is beging said in Romans 7:25?

[ThinkingEye]

(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Is Paul referring to himself after salvation?
Or is Paul referring to himself before salvation?
I need scripture that backs up one or the other.

 

[mesue]

Ro:7:18: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Ro:7:19: For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Ro:7:20: Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Ro:7:21: I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Ro:7:22: For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Ro:7:23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Ro:7:24: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Ro:7:25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I think you need to back up to verse 18 and get the scripture in context.
Paul is talking about struggling with the flesh and how he knows in his heart that he should do good, see vs 22, but he struggles with actually doing that which is good, see vs 23. I think, also, he is struggling with following the law of the Jews, and being under grace. Growing up Jewish he had to follow the law to get into Heaven. But Christ died so that we need not depend on the law to get us to Heaven, but the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He is saying in vs 22 that he loves the law, like David did in the Psalms, however to break on law one was guilty of them all James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Paul realizes this as we see in vs 24, but the good news is Jesus Christ our Lord shed his blood for all sin. And Paul is thanking Him. And saying that he will continue to follow the law in his head, but knows it is not the way to Heaven.

Disclaimer: I wrote this in 5 minutes with as much time spent in thought. I have to go to practice. If I am a heretic, sorry and feel free to correct me. I have a bunch of scripture in my head for this. Pray I don't forget them. I'm getting old.

.

 

[ZiSunka]

We all want to do what pleases God, but so often, we only do what pleases us. This is what Paul is talking about. Our human nature comes through even when we want so badly to be holy and to follow Christ at any cost.

 

[SonOfThunder]

GAL 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

GAL 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

GAL 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

GAL 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

GAL 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

GAL 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

GAL 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

GAL 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

GAL 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

GAL 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


we see here that we have both the flesh and the spirit within us, since we have free will as to what we serve they wrestle with each other. All of us have this and I think what you posted was just that, he struggles in that he knows whom he should serve with the mind, but his flesh is rising up in opposition.

James

 

[ThinkingEye]

I understand what you are saying, but I'm looking for something more specific. In Romans chapter 7 Paul says that that he would do, he does not. And that he does not allow, that he does. So, if this is true in a Christian, then how is he or she different from any nonbeliever? So, what I'm looking for is if Paul is speaking about himself before he was saved or if he is speaking about his current condition as a Christian. I'm leaning toward the view that he is speaking about before he was saved. Because we are to crucify the flesh and the lusts thereof and not be in bondage to it. For we were set free from the law of sin. My question to you would be, am I interpreting this correctly? Read the verse below. But, I feel I need more scripture to back up any position on this subject. Your assistance is and will be greatly appreciated.

Rom 8:2(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[ZiSunka]

So, if this is true in a Christian, then how is he or she different from any nonbeliever?

We are saved, but undergoing a process of sanctification. We still struggle with sin and the desire to sin, with wanting to be holy but doing fleshly things. We don't become perfect when we get saved, we become forgiven and justified. Our struggle with our human nature will not be over all the days of our lives.

 

[ThinkingEye]

I completely agree with you. But what about being in bondage to a sin. Such as drinking for an alcoholic or smoking or whatever. Habitual sin is what I am saying.

 

[ZiSunka]

There are Christians who are not delivered from every kind of sin the moment they get saved. Sometimes God allows them to continue to struggle.

 

[brotherjim]

Dear ThinkingEye,

Good thought.

What Paul is doing is encapsulating the post-New Birth life.

We find in the book of Galatians, for example, that the Galatians were doing the opposite of what Paul was explaining in Romans 7, via their self-righteous works of flesh after being genuinely born-again. ("Why having been begun in the Spirit, are you now attempting. . . . .")

The Christian life must be one entirely of Grace, "so that no man can boast," "so that no flesh should glory in His presence." It can be summed up as a life composed of simply receiving one Grace after another until the requirements of eternal Life have been apprehended (1 Jn. 2:3-5, 1 Jn. 4:16-18, Lk. 10:25-28, Rev. 22:14, etc).

So in Romans 7 that you quote, Paul was summarizing the mortal's participation in the process of salvation, which be simply receiving the Graces that Jesus provided. ". . . He ascended on High . . . and gave Gifts [Graces] unto men."

We receive the Graces needed subsequent to salvation, by deciding in our mind to commit to receiving them at whatever eventual cost. This is really all that man can do. It is actually just a reaction to whatever God has offered. When God reveals to our inner person that such and such Grace is what He knows we next need and what He wants us to next receive, we of course must react. The responses of those at Mar's hill when Paul preached to them, illustrates the possibilities. Of course the only eternally profitable reaction is to believe what God has revealed, and say, "Yes, Lord; yes, Lord; yes, yes, Lord."

The Holy Ghost will take it from there (if we do not harden our heart--which hardening God offers even yet another Grace to overcome if such is needed).

(But it is also the same methodology employed by God leading to when we receive the New Birth--we are just not so acutely aware of what is taking place, neither well educated in it according to the Word of God.)

brotherjim

 

[MbiaJc]

So, if this is true in a Christian, then how is he or she different from any nonbeliever?

They are unsaved sinners.

We are saved sinners.