What is arminianism

[Abba]

What basically is arminianism? How does it differ from Calvinism? Was Arminianism named after a man?

 

[Foundthelight]

What basically is arminianism? How does it differ from Calvinism? Was Arminianism named after a man?

Jacobus Arminius (Jacob Harmens) was a Dutch theologian.

From the Canons of Dort as published by e-Sword:

The third of our doctrinal standards is the Canons of Dort, also called the Five Articles Against the Remonstrants. These are statements of doctrine adopted by the great Reformed Synod of Dort in 1618-1619. This Synod had a truly international character, since it was composed not only of the delegates of the Reformed Church of The Netherlands but also of twenty seven delegates from foreign countries.
The Synod of Dort was held in view of the serious disturbance in the Reformed Church caused by the rise and spread of Arminianism. Arminius, a theological professor at the University of Leyden, departed from the Reformed faith in his teaching concerning five important points. He taught conditional election on the ground of foreseen faith, universal atonement, partial depravity, resistible grace, and the possibility of a lapse from grace. These views were rejected by the Synod, and the opposite views were embodied in what is now called the Canons of Dort or the Five Articles Against the Remonstrants. In these Canons the Synod set forth the Reformed doctrine on these points, namely, unconditional election, limited atonement, total depravity, invincible grace, and the perseverance of the saints.

 

[cygnusx1]

What basically is arminianism? How does it differ from Calvinism? Was Arminianism named after a man?

In a nutshell it is man centered theology , it had the nickname "the backdoor to Popery " in Puritan days.

BTW, 99% of Puritans were Calvinistic.Very few were Arminian , one name springs to mind John Goodwin , no relation to Thomas Goodwin , Thomas was a Calvinist and a very spiritual writer.
I think Owen , Goodwin (thomas) and Manton are the cream of 17 Century Calvinistic thinkers , there are also many others.

 

[Abba]

In a nutshell it is man centered theology , it had the nickname "the backdoor to Popery " in Puritan days.

One things I have learned on CF is never to accept at face value what outsiders think of a different religion.

As for the popery thing, it only serves for degrading my respect of the puritan religion.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

WHAT IS ARMINIANISM?

Jacobus (James) Arminius was a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609. Arminius taught that man is not guilty for Adam's sin, but only when he chooses to sin voluntarily. Arminius started out as a strict Calvinist, but later modified his views, views which were expressed in a document called The Remonstrance in 1610. Arminianism is the theological basis for the Methodist, Wesleyan, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Free Will Baptist, Holiness, and many charismatic churches. Arminianism teaches:

1. Election based on knowledge, the belief that God chose those who would be saved in eternity past based on His foreknowledge of those who would respond to and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Arminianism rejects the concept that God elected anyone for hell.

2. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died on the Cross for all people, that His blood is sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of every man, woman, and child who has ever lived. Thus, all mankind is savable.

3. Natural inability is the teaching that man cannot save Himself, but that the Holy Spirit must effect the new birth in him. Strict Arminians do not believe that man is totally depraved and condemned as a result of Adam's sin.

4. Prevenient grace is the Arminian belief that the prepatory work of the Holy Spirit enables the believer to respond to the Gospel and to cooperate with God in the working out of that person's salvation.

5. Conditional perseverance is the belief that man can choose to reject God, and therefore lose his salvation, even after he has been born again. Rather than the "once saved always saved" doctrine of the Calvinists, the Arminian believes that you must abide in Christ to be saved, and that you can choose to walk away from God. Arminius himself, and his early followers, stated that they were unsure of this doctrine and that it required further Biblical study. Later Arminians, however, accepted it.

I believe this is pretty close to the historical view of Arminanism, it seems in recent times Semi-pelgenism [sp] has made some in roads here and the line is quite blurred.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

In a nutshell it is man centered theology , it had the nickname "the backdoor to Popery " in Puritan days.

BTW, 99% of Puritans were Calvinistic.Very few were Arminian , one name springs to mind John Goodwin , no relation to Thomas Goodwin , Thomas was a Calvinist and a very spiritual writer.
I think Owen , Goodwin (thomas) and Manton are the cream of 17 Century Calvinistic thinkers , there are also many others.

Good Day , Cygnusx1

Can not remember the last time I heard the "back door" nick name.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Abba]

Thanks BBAS! Just what I was looking for.

Hes Dutch right? Why does his name sound like something from the Roman Empire?

I accept points 1,2,3, and 5. 4 I am a bit skeptical on.

Arminius taught that man is not guilty for Adam's sin, but only when he chooses to sin voluntarily.

I disagree with that.

Im not exactly sure on the official catholic positions on these points, however.


So how is this like completely opposed to Calvinism?

 

[JM]

Another Gospel. A denying of God's Grace and Power.

 

[BBAS 64]

Thanks BBAS! Just what I was looking for.

Hes Dutch right? Why does his name sound like something from the Roman Empire?

I accept points 1,2,3, and 5. 4 I am a bit skeptical on.



I disagree with that.

Im not exactly sure on the official catholic positions on these points, however.


So how is this like completely opposed to Calvinism?

Good Day, Abba

Yes he is dutch.

Calvinism 101

T -- total depravity. This doesn't mean people are as bad as they can be. It means that sin is in every part of one's being, including the mind and will, so that a man cannot save himself.

U -- unconditional election. God chooses to save people unconditionally; that is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit.

L -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect.

I -- irresistible grace. When God has chosen to save someone, He will.

P -- perseverence of the saints. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time.

You may what to read Augustine's 2 works on predestination and grace to give you the historical back round you seek with reguards to the views of Calvin.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Abba]

Thanks BBAS. I think that I disagree with most calvinistic doctrines, and lean more towards the arminians. It makes the most sense.

T -- total depravity. This doesn't mean people are as bad as they can be. It means that sin is in every part of one's being, including the mind and will, so that a man cannot save himself.

I totally agree

U -- unconditional election. God chooses to save people unconditionally; that is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit.

I reject the idea that God would choose some and let others burn in hell. Its just me but I cant see reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell. Revelation3.31:
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me"
The call is there fore everybody, it is just dependent on who will accept it.

L -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect.

I think that the atonement's power is infinite; because it was a perfect sacrifice. So it will save what you call the 'elect', yes, but it could also save every man on the face of the earth if they all turned to repentance and believed.

I -- irresistible grace. When God has chosen to save someone, He will.

I disagree.
Deuteronomy30.19
I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live

P -- perseverence of the saints. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time.

I disagree with the OSAS doctrine.

 

[BBAS 64]

Thanks BBAS. I think that I disagree with most calvinistic doctrines, and lean more towards the arminians. It makes the most sense.



I totally agree



I reject the idea that God would choose some and let others burn in hell. Its just me but I cant see reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell. Revelation3.31:
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me"
The call is there fore everybody, it is just dependent on who will accept it.



I think that the atonement's power is infinite; because it was a perfect sacrifice. So it will save what you call the 'elect', yes, but it could also save every man on the face of the earth if they all turned to repentance and believed.



I disagree.
Deuteronomy30.19
I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live



I disagree with the OSAS doctrine.

Good Day, Abba

Fair enough, any other questions do not hesitate. Really consider reading those works by Augustine.

Bill

 

[cygnusx1]

Thanks BBAS. I think that I disagree with most calvinistic doctrines, and lean more towards the arminians. It makes the most sense.



I totally agree



I reject the idea that God would choose some and let others burn in hell. Its just me but I cant see reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell. Revelation3.31:
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me"
The call is there fore everybody, it is just dependent on who will accept it.



I think that the atonement's power is infinite; because it was a perfect sacrifice. So it will save what you call the 'elect', yes, but it could also save every man on the face of the earth if they all turned to repentance and believed.



I disagree.
Deuteronomy30.19
I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live



I disagree with the OSAS doctrine.

Now you can see why the Puritans called Arminianism "the back door to Popery" I knew you wouldn't agree wiith Calvinists even though they are Augustinian.

 

[JM]

...and Augustine is considered by many the founder of Catholicism.

 

[Abba]

...and Augustine is considered by many the founder of Catholicism.

You must be kidding.

I believe that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

Anyone who claims that Augustine founded the catholic church is gravely misled.
There are people who say Constantine founded the Church also, (probably for their own purposes) yet that is simply not true.

Augustine was a theologian-he had ideas about religion, but that doesnt mean all of his ideas were truths. While he is embraced as a doctor of the church and a saint, his works are not infallible.

He didnt orchestrate any new church. There is a religious order named after him, but he only made commentaries on the church that already existed.

I havent read Augustine however so I dont know what you all are talking about.

 

[JM]

You must be kidding.

I havent read Augustine however so I dont know what you all are talking about.

 

[wsgm]

Thanks BBAS. I think that I disagree with most calvinistic doctrines, and lean more towards the arminians. It makes the most sense.

It seems you agree with Total Depravity, but I want to clarify/defend the Calvinist position on the other four.

About Limited Atonement,

I think that the atonement's power is infinite; because it was a perfect sacrifice. So it will save what you call the 'elect', yes, but it could also save every man on the face of the earth if they all turned to repentance and believed.

Limited Atonement does not mean that Christ's work is less powerful. His death was sufficient to save all men, but it is only effective for the elect. When Jesus died on the cross, He died only for those whom the Father gave Him - the elect. Theoretically, Christ's work could save all men if they repented, but they cannot because of Total Depravity. They are dead in their sin and cannot make themselves alive.

About Unconditional Election,

I reject the idea that God would choose some and let others burn in hell. Its just me but I cant see reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell. Revelation3.31:

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me"

The call is there fore everybody, it is just dependent on who will accept it.

Paul already explained this in Romans 9.

13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
​

So what's the "reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell"? God desired to show his wrath and to make known his power in order to make known the riches of his glory. It is a hard teaching, but it is what God says in the Bible.

The general call is for everybody, but because they are total depraved and dead, they cannot come to Christ. In the same chapter as one of your favorite verses, Jesus explains it: John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. "

About Irresistible Grace and the Perseverance of the Saints,

I disagree.

Deuteronomy30.19

I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live

I disagree with the OSAS doctrine.

See John 6:37,44 above. All that the Father gives will come. God will never cast him out. All that the Father draws will be raised on the last day. A person cannot loose his salvation because salvation is God's work, not his own. He must believe and live and walk by faith, but God gives him that faith (Eph 2:8-10; read verses 1-7 for context and an explanation of depravity).

 

[Abba]

Limited Atonement does not mean that Christ's work is less powerful. His death was sufficient to save all men, but it is only effective for the elect. When Jesus died on the cross, He died only for those whom the Father gave Him - the elect. Theoretically, Christ's work could save all men if they repented, but they cannot because of Total Depravity. They are dead in their sin and cannot make themselves alive.

I agree, but I think it is still possible for all men to come into repentance.

So what's the "reason in creating a bieng just so it rots in hell"? God desired to show his wrath and to make known his power in order to make known the riches of his glory. It is a hard teaching, but it is what God says in the Bible.

I would just like to make one comment here. God doesnt glorify himself by asserting his power over others ,like vain princes do. His glory comes from his mercy, and he uplifts the humble and exalts the lowly, which only leads to the further glory of himself. He doesnt need to lay people low. To suggest so would mean that our God is vain. This is why we catholics do not think that God thinks it is wrong to venerate the saints. THEIR GLORY CONTRIBUTES TO HIS GLORY IN THE END.

See John 6:37,44 above. All that the Father gives will come. God will never cast him out. All that the Father draws will be raised on the last day. A person cannot loose his salvation because salvation is God's work, not his own. He must believe and live and walk by faith, but God gives him that faith (Eph 2:8-10; read verses 1-7 for context and an explanation of depravity).

God will not cast him out, no, but they can 'cat theirselves out' by sinning against God.

 

[wsgm]

I agree, but I think it is still possible for all men to come into repentance.

John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."
No one can come unless he is drawn, and if he is drawn, he will come. Therefore, if "it is still possible for all men to come into repentance," then all must be drawn and come, but we know that not all will come. Hell will not be empty. Therefore, it is not possible for all men to come to Christ. They hate God and are dead. They cannot save themselves. Only God can save, and if He chooses to save someone, then He will save that person. If someone could be saved without God choosing and saving him, or if God tried to save someone and did not, then God would be out of control of salvation and no longer God.

I would just like to make one comment here. God doesnt glorify himself by asserting his power over others ,like vain princes do. His glory comes from his mercy, and he uplifts the humble and exalts the lowly, which only leads to the further glory of himself. He doesnt need to lay people low. To suggest so would mean that our God is vain. This is why we catholics do not think that God thinks it is wrong to venerate the saints. THEIR GLORY CONTRIBUTES TO HIS GLORY IN THE END.

God glorifies Himself through all his acts. If He did not, if some of His acts were not perfect and worthy of glory, then He would not be perfect, and He would not be God. He does assert His power over His enemies, and He is glorified by it. Look at what he says to Pharaoh: Ex 9:14 "For this time I will send all my plagues on you yourself, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth." Throughout the Psalms, God is glorified for destroying His enemies and the enemies of His people. He will be glorified by casting those who are in rebellion against Him into hell for all eternity. God is just and wrathful as well as merciful and gracious, and He is glorified for both. He lays people low and is glorified for it. It is not wrong for Him to do so because He is God. He seeks His own glory above all else because He is the only one worthy of such glory. If He did not, He would be an idolater.

God will not cast him out, no, but they can 'cat theirselves out' by sinning against God.

If someone was cast out of the book of life because of sin, that would have to be a work of God casting that person out because of sin. Jesus said this cannot happen. If someone cast himself out without God casting him out, that would mean it would be a willful choice and not a punishment from God for sin. I doubt that anyone would willfully and knowingly cast himself out of heaven into hell. Also, if Christ is not talking about God casting people out for sin, then what is He talking about? What other reason would God possibly have for casting someone out? Clearly, Jesus is saying that people will not be cast out because of sin. Once saved, always saved. If not, God would have failed in His attempt to save someone from hell fire. God doesn't pencil anyone's name into the Book of Life. People can appear to be Christians and fall away from the faith, but if they never return, then they were never really saved. Dr. Steven Lawson, a Reformed Baptist pastor from Mobile, AL puts it this way: "Faith that fails before the finish was faulty from the first."

 

[Abba]

let me ask you this question:

do you calvinists look upon god as a gracious merciful god? The ideas you are putting forth seem highly legalistic.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Abba,

Please raise the issue of total depravity in OBOB.