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What is a "work"?

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Gwendolyn

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I'm sorry! I am so full of questions today! Please be patient with me!

Whenever people say, "Catholics believe works can save you", I always assumed they meant that they thought that Catholics believe that if you give to the poor, do charity work, be nice to people, etc., that that saves you even if your heart is hard inside. (Which isn't true, Catholics believe that one is saved by the Grace of God, through faith in Christ.)

But then in another thread, a poster mentioned that baptism is a work.

I don't understand.

Could someone please explain to be what you mean by "work" or "works"? What is a "work"? Could you list some for me, as examples? Could you tell me what makes something a "work"?

Thanks. :D
 
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Gwendolyn

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*subscribing

lol Jack, I saw you replied and I was going to come in here and be like, "Dangit, Jack! You aren't baptist! Why are you answering my thread!" :p

But seriously, I do want to know what constitutes a "work"...
 
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Epiphoskei

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Everyone subscribing, eh?

A work, in the Pauline sense of "not by works, lest any man boast," the kind that Protestants reject, is a deed done in addition to the faith of Christ in order to get justified.

Reminder: This is the Baptist subforum. Questions and discussion are fine, but no debating by the guests. :)
 
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Gwendolyn

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Everyone's subscribing because I think they had no idea that baptists considered baptism a work. I definitely didn't, the first time I heard that was today in this forum.

I'm not trying to debate, I am just trying to get a handle on this. Why would baptism be considered a work, but saying the sinners' prayer and/or making a public profession of faith wouldn't? If you've already accepted Jesus in our heart, why do you have to say the prayer/make a profession?

Or are those just formalities/ordinances too, like baptism?
 
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Epiphoskei

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As a Reformed (Calvinistic) Baptist I believe that faith, if it were not the work of God, would be a work. But being a work of God within us, it is not a work in the "not by works" sense, since no man may boast of God's work within us.

Baptists consider all sacraments non-salutary, including baptism.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I'm sorry! I am so full of questions today! Please be patient with me!

Whenever people say, "Catholics believe works can save you", I always assumed they meant that they thought that Catholics believe that if you give to the poor, do charity work, be nice to people, etc., that that saves you even if your heart is hard inside. (Which isn't true, Catholics believe that one is saved by the Grace of God, through faith in Christ.)

But then in another thread, a poster mentioned that baptism is a work.

I don't understand.

Could someone please explain to be what you mean by "work" or "works"? What is a "work"? Could you list some for me, as examples? Could you tell me what makes something a "work"?

Thanks. :D


Baptists do not believe that water baptism has any effect in your salvation. Instead, we believe in the it is an act of obedience - an outward declaration in our faith in a crucified,buried and risen Saviour,, an identification with Christ. The baptism that saves is the baptism of the Holy Spirit - that moment when we come to faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit - Who had convicted us of our sin and calls us to faith - regenerates us and makes us new in Christ. It is that Spirit who will lead us to works of faith - the acts of charity and kindness, etc - that accompanies true faith in Him.

So we would see water baptism as a 'work' (an act of obedience by man) that does not save as opposed to spiritual baptism which is an act of God's which does save.


So in light of that, in regards to Catholics and works, Baptists would see the Catholic belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation, as expressed in the quotes below, as believing in salvation by works:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#VI
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

Yes, you believe in salvation by grace but also place more value in water baptism and communion than a Baptist would. That is what is behind those types of statements that you mentioned.
 
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mlqurgw

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A "work" is anything, no matter how small that thing is, that is thought to add to or cause God to favor you. Be it obedience to a set of rules, a decision, the act of faith, or any number of things that folks do that makes them feel as though God looks on them better in some way. God doesn't save or bless based on anything we do but because of the perfect obedience and saving death of Christ Jesus the Lord. A 'work" earns something from God. Christ has already earned all that there is so we can't earn anything. That is what separates grace from works. Salvation, which includes all the blessings, fulfilled promises and eternal bliss, is by the grace of God in and by Christ Jesus alone.
 
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randomguy1

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I'm new here also but I'd like to offer some scripture on works.

Jame 2:18 (NKJV) But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

So as you can see by this passage, works is doing what God instructs you to do (follow his commandments).
 
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DeaconDean

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I'm new here also but I'd like to offer some scripture on works.

Jame 2:18 (NKJV) But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

So as you can see by this passage, works is doing what God instructs you to do (follow his commandments).

But...the real question here is, are you simply doing it because it is a requirement of the Law, i.e.; included in the commandments and scriptures, or, are you doing it out of a love for God?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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randomguy1

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Decon, first where does it say that doing works is required by law? There is no law except the law of faith. Unless of course you are talking about the Old Testament law, in which case we are no longer bound.

Roma 3:27 (NKJV) Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Gala 2:16 (NKJV) "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gala 3:11 (NKJV) But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God [is] evident, for "the just shall live by faith."


John 6:28 (NKJV) Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

One can not be justified by works alone, one must be justified by works and by faith. Our faith is our law, our faith tells us to follow his commandments which are our works.
 
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DeaconDean

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One can not be justified by works alone, one must be justified by works and by faith. Our faith is our law, our faith tells us to follow his commandments which are our works.

Twice in this sentence, you used the term "justified".

What does the word "justification" mean?

According to the Theolopedia:

Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).

Source

According to the Baptist Confessions of Faith:

Chapter 11

Of Justification


  1. Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth,1 not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons, as righteous;2 not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone;3 not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness, but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in His death, for their whole and sole righteousness;4 they receiving, and resting on Him, and His righteousness by faith; which faith they have not of themselves: it is the gift of God.5
  2. Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification:6 yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.7
  3. Christ, by His obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified; and did by the sacrifice of Himself, in the blood of His cross, undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them, make a proper, real and full satisfaction to God's justice in their behalf;8 yet, inasmuch as He was given by the Father for them, and His obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for anything in them,9 their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.10
  4. God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect,11 and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification;12 nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in due time actually apply Christ unto them.13
  5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified;14 and although they can never fall from the state of justification,15 yet they may by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure;16 and in that condition, they have not usually the light of His countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.17
  6. The justification of believers under the Old Testament, was in all these respects one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.18
Footnotes:

1. Ro 3:24; 8:30.
2. Ro 4:5-8; Eph 1:7.
3. 1Co 1:30-31; Ro 5:17-19.
4. Php 3:8-9; Eph 2:8-10.
5. Jn 1:12; Ro 5:17.
6. Ro 3:28.
7. Gal 5:6; Jas 2:17,22,26.
8. Heb 10:14; 1Pe 1:18-19; Isa 53:5-6.
9. Ro 8:32; 2Co 5:21.
10. Ro 3:26; Eph 1:6-7; 2:7.
11. Gal 3:8; 1Pe 1:2; 1Ti 2:6. 12. Ro 4:25.
12. Ro 4:25.
13. Col 1:21-22; Tit 3:4-7.
14. Mt 6:12; 1Jn 1:7,9.
15. Jn 10:28.
16. Ps 89:31-33.
17. Ps 32:5; Ps 51:1-19; Mt 26:75.
18. Gal 3:9; Ro 4:22-24.

Source

Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology says:

Justification is the declaring of a person to be just or righteous. It is a legal term signifying acquittal, a fact that makes it unpalatable to many in our day. We tend to distrust legalism and thus we dismiss anything that savors of a legalistic approach. We should be clear that our hesitation was not shared by the biblical writers. In their day it was axiomatic that a wealthy and important citizen would not be treated in a law court in the same way as an insignificant person. Indeed this was sometimes written into the statutes and, for example, in the ancient Code of Hammurabi it is laid down that if a citizen knocked out the tooth of another citizen his own tooth should be knocked out. But if the victim was a vassal it sufficed to pay a small fine. Nobody expected strict justice in human tribunals but the biblical writers were sure that God is a God of justice.Throughout the Bible justice is a category of fundamental importance...Justification (dikaiosis [dikaivwsi"]) is connected linguistically with righteousness (dikaiosune [dikaiosuvnh]); in the first century it is clear that all the words with this root were concerned with conformity to a standard of right. And in Scripture it is not too much to say that righteousness is basically a legal term. The law that mattered was, of course, the law of God, so that righteousness signified conformity to the law of God.

The New Testament. When we turn to the New Testament we must be clear that therighteousness and justification terminology is to be understood in the light of its Hebrew background, not in terms of contemporary Greek ideas. We see this, for example, in the words of Jesus who speaks of people giving account on the day of judgment: "by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned" ( Matt 12:37 ; the word NIV translates "acquitted" is the one Paul normally uses for "justified" ). Those acquitted on the day of judgment are spoken of as "the righteous" ( Matt25:37 ; they go into "eternal life, " v. 46 ).

The verb translated "to justify" clearly means "to declare righteous." It is used of God in a quotation, which the New International Version renders "So that you may be proved right when you speak" ( Rom 3:4 ; the NRSV has more exactly, "So that you may be justified in your words" ). Now God cannot be "made righteous"; the expression obviously means "shown to be righteous" and this helps us see that when the word is applied to believers it does not mean "made righteous"; it signifies "declared righteous," "shown to be in the right, " or the like.

Paul is fond of the concept of justification; indeed for him it is the characteristic way of referring to the central truth of the gospel. He makes much more use of the concept than do the other writers of the New Testament. This does not mean that he has a different understanding of the gospel; it is the same gospel that he proclaims, the gospel that the death of Christ on the cross has opened a way of salvation for sinners. But he uses the concept of justification to express it whereas the other writers prefer other terms. He says, "Just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" ( Rom 5:19 ). We should not understand "were made sinners" in any such sense as "were compelled to be sinners." It signifies "were constituted sinners, " "were reckoned as sinners." Paul is saying that the whole human race is caught up in the effect of Adam's sin; now all are sinners. Paul speaks of God "who justifies the wicked" ( Rom 4:5 ): it is not people who have merited their salvation of whom he writes, but people who had no claim on salvation. It was "while we were still sinners" that Christ died for us ( Rom 5:8 ). But the effect of Christ's saving work is that now all believers are "made righteous," "accepted by God as righteous."

Paul insists that people are not justified by what they themselves do. Justification is not the result of the infusion of new life into people, but comes about when they believe.

Source

James Petigru Boyce in his work "Abstract of Systematic Theology" teaches:

I. It is a Judicial Act of God.
That God is its author is emphatically declared by Paul in Rom. 8:33; "It is God that justifieth." As he is the lawgiver and judge so must he also be the justifier.
The act is not one of sovereignty, as is election, because he does not justify merely of good pleasure, but because the demands of the law have been met. Yet his act is free, and of grace, because it is of his own choice that he accepts a substitute, and because Christ and his meritorious work have been graciously secured and given by God himself. See Rom. 3:24.

The usage of other words in connection with justification shows it to be a forensic act. The term "righteousness," dikaiosune, which, like "righteous," dikaios, is used in connection with personal righteousness, as of God in Acts 17:31, and of Christ "the Faithful and True," Rev. 19:11, and of the martyrs in Heb. 11:33, and of human obedience to the law in Rom. 10:3, 5; Phil. 3:6, 9, is, in connection with God's justification of sinners, applied, though chiefly by the Apostle Paul, to "the righteousness which God bestows or accepts," and which is imputed to the sinner or reckoned to his account.


Another term, dikaiosis, signifies "the act or process of declaring righteous," viz., justification.

The word dikaioma, which means "that which is declared righteous," and hence a statute or command, as something which the law of God declares to be a righteous requirement, is used in connection with justification for "the deed by which one declares another righteous, and is partially equivalent to dikaiosis."

The principal word which is used for expressing the nature of God's action in justification is dikaioo, "to justify," which means everywhere "to declare righteous," "to regard and represent as righteous," and not "to make righteous" in the sense of conferring personal righteousness.
This usage of terms shows plainly that justification is a judicial act of God, in which he does not confer holiness, but only declares the relation occupied to the law by the one who is in Christ.

II. The Ground of this Justification
It is manifest from what has already been said that the justification of the sinner must depend on something not personally his own. The Scriptures teach that it is due not to his own good works but to the meritorious work of Christ which is imputed to him, or put to his account.

1. They teach us negatively that it is not due to his own good works.

(1.) They expressly deny that justification can be by the works of the law. Rom. 3:20; Gal. 3:11; Eph. 2:9.

(2.) They assert that, could it thus have been attained, Christ's death has been useless. Gal. 2:21; 5:4.

(3.) Sinfulness is declared to be the condition of every man, which excludes the possibility of works untainted by sin. Rom. 3:10.

(4.) The law is said to demand such complete obedience that "whosoever shall keep the whole law and stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all." James 2:10.

(5.) We are told that "if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily, righteousness would have been of the law." Gal. 3:21.

(6.) It is likewise stated as necessary to the certainty of attaining salvation that "it is of faith that it may be according to grace." Rom. 4:16.

These statements show that, not only are men not saved by works alone, but not even by works combined with grace. Justification cannot arise, therefore, from the good works of men. Not even has its condition been so modified that a partial obedience can be accepted, whether this stands alone or is supplemented by, or is supplementary to the merits of Christ. Something entirely outside of man must constitute the basis of justification.

2. The word of God declares this outside something to be the meritorious work of Christ.

(1.) In general

(a) By declaring that the righteousness of God is connected with our relations to, or belief in Christ. Rom. 3:22, 26; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Cor. 1:30.
(b) By stating that redemption is in Christ Jesus. Rom. 3:24.
(c) By setting him forth as the only foundation of salvation.
(d) By asserting salvation to be found only in Christ. Acts 4:12.
(e) By asserting a definite relation between our sin and Christ, and his righteousness and ourselves. 2 Cor. 5:21.

2. More specifically by connecting the salvation and justification of man with Christ's merits.

This may be shown.

(a) In connection with his sufferings, or what is usually called his passive obedience.

1. Christ is presented as "the Lamb of God," John 1:29, in evident allusion to the sacrificial offerings of the olden days, and Paul speaks of him as one "whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, by his blood." Rom. 3:25.

2. He is presented as one who has died for us. Rom. 5:6, 8; 8:34; 14:15; 1 Cor. 8:11; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15; 1 Thess. 5:10; and specifically as having died for our sins. 1 Cor. 15:3.

3. We are said to be justified by his blood (Rom. 5:9), and reconciled by his death (Rom. 5:10), and by his cross (Eph. 2:16).

(b) Our justification is due also to the active obedience of Christ, and not to passive obedience only.

1. Righteousness involves character, conduct and action, even more than suffering endured as penalty. The sinlessness of Christ is therefore plainly taught, and especially in connection with imputation. 2 Cor. 5:21.

2. The gracious salvation he brings is said to establish the law.

3. He assures us, that he came to fulfil the law. Matt. 5:17.

4. The obedience of Christ is not only contrasted with the disobedience of Adam, but is declared to be the means by which many shall be made righteous. Rom. 5:19.
It thus appears, that the ground of justification is the whole meritorious work of Christ. Not his sufferings and death only, but his obedience to, and conformity with the divine law are involved in the justification, which is attained by the believer. The question is here sometimes asked, how the active obedience of Christ can avail to us, when he was himself a man and under the law, and owed obedience personally on his own behalf. The answer to this is twofold, in each case depending upon the doctrine of the incarnation of the Son of God. On the one hand, the position was one voluntarily assumed by the Son of God. He was under no obligation to become man. He was not, and could not be made man without his own consent. In thus voluntarily coming under the law, his obedience would have merit to secure all the blessings connected with the covenant, under which he assumed such relations. But besides this, the fulfillment of the law would not simply be that fulfillment due by a mere man, which is all the law could demand of him on his own behalf, so that the merit secured is that due to the Son of God, thus as man rendering obedience to the law. That merit is immeasurable and is available for all for whom he was the substitute.

Source

So I am sorry, but you have a wrong view of "Justification" from a Baptist standpoint.

We are justified by God by our faith in Christ, by His imputed righteousness to us, and "not of works, lest any man should boast". (cf Eph 2:8-9)

Whatever our works are, they are evidence of our faith. These are the things we told to look for in Jesus' words:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Mt. 7:20 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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In Gerhard Kittel's great work: The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament", we read:

dikaioo - dervives from dikaios, -on, and means "to make righteous" or neuter, "to establish as right." "to validate," (oppsite akuroun, to invalidate," etc.).

In the LXX, dikaioun is a forensic term. Yet it does not have a predominate negative connotation ("to condemn") as in the Greek, but is constantly used in the postive sense of "to pronounce righteous," "to justify," "to vindicate." The forensic element is even stronger in the LXX than in the Masoretic text. Thus in Isa. 45:25 in the Mas., means that they find righteousness with Yahweh, whereas the LXX: "apo kuriou dikaioqhsoutai" means that they are declared righteous by Him.

When used in the OT active, in the hiph., to declare someone righteous, to acquit someone, to secure justice for him. According to the legal custom in Israel, this dikaioun may not apply for the asebhs: Ex. 23:7; Isa. 5:23; Sir. 10:29; 42:2. Only the dikaios may be declared righteous; Deut. 25:1; 3 Bas. 8:32 (cf. materially Prov. 17:15)

When used in the pi., "to prove to be innocent or righteous. (Jer. 3:11); Ez. 16:51: "thou hast justified thy sisters" It is often used by the Rabbis for divine acquital: 1. Pesikt. r., 40 (169a); 2. bErub., 19a; 3. Midr., Ps. 143 (266b); 4. Tg. Ps. 51:6. In the Psalms of Solomon, the article is never related to man in the sense of "to justify someone," "to declare him righteous": the dikaioun which man pronounces is plainly referred to God.

Dikaiow in the NT:

3. "To justify oneself," to represent oneself as righteous." A weaker sense, which yet betrays its legal origin, is found in Lk. 10:29. The qelwn dikaiwsai eauton, wishes to vindicate himself in debate. on the other hand, Lk. 16:15: "umeiV este oi dikaiounteV eautouV enwpion twn anqrwpwn," "to declare or to represent oneself as righteous (passive) is much closer to the main NT usage. The attitude of the dikaios anticipates what God alone can establish by His pronouncement.

dikaiwqhnai in the sense of saving righteousness in the Synoptists. Paul is not the only one to use the term in the strict legal sense. Luke's statement concerning the publican in 18:14: "katebh outoV dedikaiwmenoV...par ekeinon:" can only mean "acquitted" "declared righteous."

dikaiow as used specifically by Paul:

In Paul, the legal usage is plain and indisputable. The opposite of dikaiun is katakrinein (Rom. 8:34). For Paul, the work dikaioun does not suggest the infusion of moral qualities, a "justum efficere" in the sense of the creation of right conduct. It implies the justification of the ungodly who believe on the basis of the justifying action of God in the death and resurrection of Christ. To be sure, the dikaiousqai is an act of grace rather than of retribution according to works. Yet this act of grace in the cross can be called forensic because in the "ilasthrion" judgment is executed on all sin in the Substitute. This dikaioun is the judical acquittal which takes place in the saving present. It is neither exclusively objectively in the cross nor exclusively subjective in experience. It has rather the objectively of relationship, enacted at the cross and apprehended in faith (dikaiosunh). Thus dikaiwqhnai in Gal. 2:16, "to become a righteous man in the eyes of God," the essence of justification being that God helps the sinner to the position and status of one who is righteous in His eyes. this interpretation is valid, though it should be emphasized that the new postition and staus are the result of judical pronouncement.

In the following passages there is clear reference (Experience and the Act of Salvation) in the present tense - which is the mark of the new insight - to the present character of justification: Gal. 3:8: "dikaioi"; 3:11: "dikaioutai"; (cf. also 2:16 and 3:24); Rom. 3:24: "dikaioumenoi"; 3:28: "dikaiousqai"; (cf. "dikaioutai" -Acts 13:39). In addition to the present tenses, the preterites are no less important, since they treat justification as something which already has happened as an event. Simply to emphasise the character of justification as an experience, and to reject the view that dikaiousqai refers to the universal act of salvation accomplished at the cross is to miss the fact that this act is always present as salvation and therefore available for personal apprehension. This is, of course, necessary. When there is reference to "dikaiousqai," "pistis" is always included. (cf. Gal. 2:16, 2 times; 3:8,11,24; Rom. 3:28,30; 4:5; 5:1) It is impossible to separate once-for-all justification at the cross and personal justification in faith (dikaiosunm). Rom. 5:9: "dikaiwqenteV nun en tw aimati autou" expressly refers to the act of salvation in indication of the Where of justification. This is the effective basis of dikaiousqai, the invading and self-actualizing present of salvation. In Rom. 8:30, "edikaiwsen/edocasen" it is not appropriate to speak of past justifiaction, since here the catena of aorists denotes the certainty of the event from all eternity in the council of God. This leads to the decisive point in this view of time. The eternal character of the justifying event of salvation prevents any severing of past and present. The act of salvation is a continuing present.

The use of "apo" in connection with "dikaiwqhnai" gives emphatic expression to the thought of redemption. Thus liberation from guilt is meantr in Acts 13:38: "gnwston oun estw umin, andreV adelfoi, oti dia toutou umin afesiV amartiwn kataggelletai [,kai] apo pantwn wn ouk hdunhqhte en nomw mwusewV dikaiwqhnai". Here again, we have legal justification. Only tendtious criticism can think that the "gnwston oun estw umin, andreV adelfoi, oti dia toutou umin afesiV amartiwn kataggelletai [,kai] apo pantwn wn ouk hdunhqhte en nomw mwusewV dikaiwqhnai" affirms partial justification by the Law. Rom. 6:7: "o gar apoqanwn dedikaiwtai apo thV amartiaV." is an erratic block among the statements of Paul. Here again, the "apo" denotes the liberation of man, this time, from the service of sin. Our old man is crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be destroyed and that we should not serve sin any more; for - and this brings us to the statement "he who dies is (thereby) declared free from sin.

The Rabbinic saying that the soul of the dead achieves expiation by death, and the Pauline statement that he who dies is thereby pronounced free from sin, are fully identical in substance. Paul is thus using here a Rabbinic theologumenon. But the true significance and the force of the statement derive from the belief in identification with the death of Christ and the consequent pronouncing free from sin. The Rabbinic parallel is also instructive in that it shows us how closely linked are justification and atonement in the thinking of Paul.

In other words, we have here, another comfirmation of the significance of the "ilasthrion" as the basis of justification.


- Heinrich Schlier​

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, Editor; Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Translator, Eerdmans Publishing, Grand Rapids, Mi. Copyright 1964, Vol II, dikaiow, p. 211-219.

That is the essence of Sola Fide. Faith Alone. Or do you reject that?

Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also historically known as the doctrine of justification by faith, is a doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from Catholicism, Eastern Christianity, and most Restorationists in Christianity.
The doctrine of sola fide or "faith alone" asserts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith or belief alone, to the exclusion of all human efforts or works.

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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If the book of James indeed teaches that a man is justified in the sight of God by works, then Martin Luther was absolutely correct when he said of the book of James calling it:

"an epistle of straw."

And Luther was also correct in saying:

The epistle of James, however, only drives you to the law, and its works. He mixes one thing with another to such an extent that I suspect some good and pious man assembled a few things said by disciples of the apostles, and then put them down in black and white; or perhaps the epistle was written by someone else who made notes of a sermon of his. He calls the law a law of freedom, although St. Paul calls it a law of slavery, wrath, death, and sin.

Yet he quotes St. Peter's saying that "Love covers a multitude of sins", and again "Humble yourselves under the hand of God"; further, St. Paul's word in Galatians 5, The spirit lusteth against hate. But St. James was killed by Herod in Jerusalem before St. Peter's death, which shows the writer to have been far later than St. Peter or St. Paul.

In sum: he wished to guard against those who depended on faith without going on to works, but he had neither the spirit nor the thought nor the eloquence equal to the task. He does violence to Scripture, and so contradicts Paul and all Scripture. He tries to accomplish by emphasizing law what the apostles bring about by attracting men to love. I therefore refuse him a place among the writers of the true canon of my bible; but I would not prevent anyone placing him or raising him where he likes, for the epistle contains many excellent passages.

Martin Luther's Preface to James and Jude.

Source

If you are justified by works, then Martin Luther was correct and the book of James should be ripped from the canon of scripture.

What James does teach is that those who say they have faith, and no works as evidence of that faith, then their faith is suspect.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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randomguy1

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Decon,

My definition of justification is just as yours, to be righteous. And what is it to be righteous? To be just and lawful.

I agree that a man cannot be justified(righteous) by his works alone, I said that before; a man is justified(righteous/lawful) by doing his works AND by faith.

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

And once again, what is works?

29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Thus following His commandments.


And did I understand you right, that you think the book of James should be thrown out of the Bible?
 
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Caedmon

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Baptists do not believe that water baptism has any effect in your salvation. Instead, we believe in the it is an act of obedience - an outward declaration in our faith in a crucified,buried and risen Saviour,, an identification with Christ.
What are the repercussions for a Baptist not getting baptized?
 
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