Yeah, indirect experience I think refers to most institutional religious experiences. Eucharist, etc.
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I don't need an explanation of the mystical experience. I just want an explanation of that phrase. I suppose it's as opposed to an indirect experience of God?
Yeah, indirect experience I think refers to most institutional religious experiences. Eucharist, etc.
As someone who believes in the historic teaching of the Real Presence, it's a bit hard for me to think of the Eucharist as an "indirect" experience of God.
I'm eating and drinking God.
-CryptoLutheran
Yeah, but you're not meeting and speaking with Him face to face.
You and I are talking indirectly via the internet. It's much different that talking directly, looking at one another.
Mystics don't usually commune with God via eucharist, churches, traditions, etc.
Non-mystics visit God at His house. God visits mystics at their house.
I'd counter that the mystic doesn't meet and speak to God face to face either. Even if their experience is genuine. The closest any had to such an encounter that we know of is Moses, and what Moses experienced wasn't God's face, but God's hindquarters. God tells Moses, "no one can see Me and live".
-CryptoLutheran
Can't believe no one mentioned the most important definitionI have a few definitions, but I would like to here others' input.
• A mystic is someone who has direct experience of God.
• A mystic is someone who considers personal firsthand experience to be the highest authority, especially regarding religious things, most especially God.
• A mystic is an unorganized philosopher.
• A mystic is someone whose understanding is bigger than their intellect.
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Can't believe no one mentioned the most important definition
Then your education is sadly lackingWhat's the most important definition? I don't recognize the picture.
Then your education is sadly lacking
http://darkcrystal.wikia.com/wiki/UrRu
No, they teach William James who defines mystical experiences as having a noetic quality, which means they involve some "knowing."
Ok....and?
The Book of Proverbs teaches that it's the glory of God to conceal things, and the glory of kings to search them out.
Moreover, Jesus said that any scribe for the Kingdom of Heaven will bring forth from his storehouse what is old (what is already known in the Old Testament scriptures) and what is new (what God was about to bring forth in the New Testament writings).
Paul is clearly such a scribe.
Paul had revelatory understanding of God's mysteries, but that's different from mysticism because what Paul wrote about was clearly witnessed to in other scriptures.
I'm sorry. We're just going to have to disagree.
Yes, nobody meets God face to face and lives. Remember how Paul says he died and was resurrected with Christ? That is the death. He also talks about "face to face" in Corinthians.
Or if you like, they meet Metatron or Michael.
And... Mystical experience is a means of knowledge.
Also, his book was mostly observations, which makes it hardly out of date.
Lol so a late 1800s psychologist is the final word on mystical experiences? Why? Because you like what he has to say on the matter?
You do know that "noetic" simply means "relating to the mind". So if someone says that mystical experiences have a noetic quality...it doesn't necessarily mean that they are a source of knowledge. He could be saying that they're just all in your imagination.
1) That's not the kind of death meant.
2) The "face to face" is distinct from the present "in a mirror dimly", referring most likely to the resurrection and renewal of all things at the Eschaton.
-CryptoLutheran
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