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What is a lukewarm Christian?

tonychanyt

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Revelation 3:

16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
Jesus addressed the nominal Christians. It was a warning. Take heed. Get serious. The context points to the Church in Sardis (Revelation 3:1). I do not have an operational definition of lukewarm. I leave it to the conscience of the individual believers to decide for themselves whether they are lukewarm Christians or not.

Luke 12:

47“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.
That's one kind of lukewarm Christian.

48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.
That's another.

From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
Lukewarm Christians will be punished, some more and some less. Get busy and active in the will of God.

See How not to be lukewarm.
 

AlexB23

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Revelation 3:


Jesus addressed the nominal Christians. It was a warning. Take heed. Get serious. The context points to the Church in Sardis (Revelation 3:1). I do not have an operational definition of lukewarm. I leave it to the conscience of the individual believers to decide for themselves whether they are lukewarm Christians or not.

Luke 12:


That's one kind of lukewarm Christian.


That's another.


Lukewarm Christians will be punished, some more and some less. Get busy and active in the will of God.

See How not to be lukewarm.
I made a post about this very topic.

Background: Some Christians (not all), especially modern churches, have gone so far from the Bible, that Cafeteria Christianity has become a thing in the past few decades, especially in hyper-partisan (on both sides) Christianity. Cafeteria Christianity is a term used to describe the practice of selecting and choosing only certain beliefs, teachings, or practices from Christianity while rejecting others. It is often used pejoratively to criticize individuals who pick and choose which aspects of Christian doctrine they wish to follow, rather than adhering to the religion's traditional teachings as a whole. The term "cafeteria" suggests that these believers are approaching their faith like they would a buffet line, taking what they want and leaving behind what they don't. This approach can lead to inconsistencies in belief and practice, and it may result in distorted understandings of Christian teachings.

In Revelation 3:15-16, Jesus warns the church in Laodicea for being lukewarm in their faith and for not realizing that they are poor, blind, and naked.


This ties in with entertainment style churches:
 
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BobRyan

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The seven churches are seven church ages. We are currently living in the 7th age which is the one you reference in the OP. It is a church that views itself as informed, complete and "in need of nothing" -- and all other church ages as inferior, superstitious, uninformed etc.
 
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AlexB23

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The seven churches are seven church ages. We are currently living in the 7th age which is the one you reference in the OP. It is a church that views itself as informed, complete and "in need of nothing" -- and all other church ages as inferior, superstitious, uninformed etc.
When did the 7th age start? The 1800s? If we are in the 7th church age, that means we are in the end times, assuming these churches represent time periods in history.
 
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BobRyan

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When did the 7th age start? The 1800s? If we are in the 7th church age, that means we are in the end times, assuming these churches represent time periods in history.
all true.

Dan 8 provides a 2300 year timeline that points to what it calls "the time of the end"

"18 Now while he was talking with me, I was dazed with my face to the ground; but he touched me and made me stand at my place. 19 And he said, “Behold, I am going to inform you of what will occur at the final period of the indignation, because it pertains to the appointed time of the end.

The book of Daniel links the start of the 2300 year timeline in Dan 8, to the start of the 490 year timeline in Dan 9 (the 70 weeks of years in Dan 9) showing that they both have the same start point.

Bob
 
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AlexB23

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all true.

Dan 8 provides a 2300 year timeline that points to what it calls "the time of the end"

"18 Now while he was talking with me, I was dazed with my face to the ground; but he touched me and made me stand at my place. 19 And he said, “Behold, I am going to inform you of what will occur at the final period of the indignation, because it pertains to the appointed time of the end.

The book of Daniel links the start of the 2300 year timeline in Dan 8, to the start of the 490 year timeline in Dan 9 (the 70 weeks of years in Dan 9) showing that they both have the same start point.

Bob
How long is each church age? 2300 years / 7 church eras is roughly 330 years.
 
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BobRyan

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Rev 3 - the first church age - Ephesus -

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:​
The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:​
2 ‘I know your deeds and your labor and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil people, and you have put those who call themselves apostles to the test, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured on account of My name, and have not become weary.​
4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore, remember from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and I will remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But you have this, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will grant to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.’​

1. They dealt with "false apostles" as Paul points out in 2 Cor 11

12 But what I am doing I will also continue to do, so that I may eliminate the opportunity from those who want an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.​

Notice that in 2 Cor 11 - Paul is not writing "to the church of Ephesus" -- the problem he was addressing covered the whole church. In Acts 20 he predicted that people would arise from within the church as false teachers drawing away disciples after themselves.

2. They were known for devoted labor for the gospel, perseverance, endurance, rooting out false doctrine false teachers, and for having had at one time "Their first love" of the Gospel
 
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BobRyan

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Rev 3 - the first church age - Ephesus -

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:​
The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:​
2 ‘I know your deeds and your labor and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil people, and you have put those who call themselves apostles to the test, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured on account of My name, and have not become weary.​
4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore, remember from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and I will remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But you have this, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will grant to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.’​

1. They dealt with "false apostles" as Paul points out in 2 Cor 11

12 But what I am doing I will also continue to do, so that I may eliminate the opportunity from those who want an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.​

Notice that in 2 Cor 11 - Paul is not writing "to the church of Ephesus" -- the problem he was addressing covered the whole church. In Acts 20 he predicted that people would arise from within the church as false teachers drawing away disciples after themselves.

2. They were known for devoted labor for the gospel, perseverance, endurance, rooting out false doctrine false teachers, and for having had at one time "Their first love" of the Gospel
 
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BobRyan

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How long is each church age? 2300 years / 7 church eras is roughly 330 years.
The description of the church age - indicates how long a period it covers --

I will give an example of the divisions for sake of illustration
 
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AlexB23

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The description of the church age - indicates how long a period it covers --

I will give an example of the divisions for sake of illustration
Thank you. The church of Laodicea is happening now.
 
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BobRyan

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Ephesus - 31 AD -- 100 AD
Smyrna -- 100 AD - 313 AD (with the TEN Days mentioned there being 303 - 313) - nothing bad said about this church
Pergamum - 313 - 538
Thyatira - 538 - 1565 (the longest church age of persecution)
Sardis - 1565 - 1740 (reformation of the church, discarding hay, stubble, dross)
Philadelphia - 1740 - 1844 (nothing bad said about this church)
Laodicea - 1844 - Now
 
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AlexB23

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Ephesus - 31 AD -- 100 AD
Smyrna -- 100 AD - 313 AD (with the TEN Days mentioned there being 303 - 313) - nothing bad said about this church
Pergamum - 313 - 538
Thyatira - 538 - 1565 (the longest church age of persecution)
Sardis - 1565 - 1740 (reformation of the church, discarding hay, stubble, dross)
Philadelphia - 1740 - 1844 (nothing bad said about this church)
Laodicea - 1844 - Now
What were examples of churches that lined up with these?

Church EraExamples
Ephesus - 31 AD - 100 ADJesus Ministry, early church
Smyrna - 100 AD - 313 ADOrthodox founded, Catholic founded
Pergamum - 313 - 538
Thyatira - 538 - 1565 (the longest church age of persecution)Schism, Crusades, Inquisition
Sardis - 1565 - 1740 (reformation of the church, discarding hay, stubble, dross)Reformation
Philadelphia - 1740 - 1844 (nothing bad said about this church)
Laodicea - 1844 - NowCults, Woke churches
Christ's return
 
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BobRyan

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All 7 churches in Rev 2-3 were real churches in John's day (Rev was written in the 90's in first century) - but they were not all the churches in existence.

For example Antioch became the great Christian center for missionary evangelism in Acts 13 -- and was still in existence at the time of Rev 3 - but is not mentioned at all in the 7 churches.

John is carefully selecting churches in his own day -- that illustrate the seven ages, seven periods of time that the church would go through.
 
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AlexB23

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All 7 churches in Rev 2-3 were real churches in John's day (Rev was written in the 90's in first century) - but they were not all the churches in existence.

For example Antioch became the great Christian center for missionary evangelism in Acts 13 -- and was still in existence at the time of Rev 3 - but is not mentioned at all in the 7 churches.

John is carefully selecting churches in his own day -- that illustrate the seven ages, seven periods of time that the church would go through.
So, what happened between 313 and 538 which resembles the church of Pergamum from ~90 AD?
 
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BobRyan

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So, what happened between 313 and 538 which resembles the church of Pergamum from ~90 AD?
Pergamum is the compromised church for the period from AD 313 to 538, when a new "papal" system was
established. A lot of "new" doctrine came into Christianity - an event that fits this era well. The Catholic historian Bokenkotter (no protestant) writes in his "A Concise History of the Catholic Church" that a lot of syncretism, merging with the pagan system of Rome came into the church at that time.

============== quotes from "A Concise History of the Catholic Church"

At first Constantine observed an attitude of formal correctness toward paganism. He remained its Supreme Pontiff, paid homage to the sun god on the official coinage, and in general was careful not to alienate the pagan masses…But he gradually revealed his true feelings. He imposed restrictions on pagan practice and publicly displayed the Christian symbols He attached the standards of the army to a cross emblazoned with the monograme of Christ and issued coins picturing himself wearing a helmet stamped with the same monogram…he increasingly identified the interests of the state with those of Christianity.

(Bokenkotter "A Concise History of the Catholic Church" page 38)



“The emperor showed great generosity to the Church in lavishing donations on it and erecting numerous sumptuous basilicas, including the magnificent one over the supposed site of the tomb of Peter at Rome and another over the tomb of Christ in Jerusalem. He surrendered HIS Lateran palace in Rome to the bishop of Rome for a residence and it remained the Papal residence until 1308. When in 324 AD he moved the capital of the Empire to Byzantium, which was renamed Constantinople after him, he erected numerous churches there…

"This alliiance with the state profoundly influenced every aspect of the church's thought and life. It carried many advantages, but it also entailed some serious drawbacks; ... mass conversions where social conformity was the chief motivating factor; the widening gap between clergy and laity thanks to the official status conferred on them; persecution of dissenters as a menace to the unity of the state. The church would never be the same again - for better and for worse - and so Constantine's conversion is certainly one of the greatest turning points in the history of the Catholic church and of the world." Ibid - Pg 39

"This alliiance with the state profoundly influenced every aspect of the church's thought and life. It carried many advantages, but it also entailed some serious drawbacks; infringements on the church’s freedom as civil authorities exploited the relationship for political purposes (and vice versa); mass conversions where social conformity was the chief motivating factor; the widening gap between clergy and laity thanks to the official status conferred on them; persecution of dissenters as a menace to the unity of the state. The church would never be the same again - for better and for worse - and so Constantine's conversion is certainly one of the greatest turning points in the history of the Catholic church and of the world." Ibid - Pg 39

"The liturgy itself was considerably influenced by the Constantinian revolution. Millions of pagans suddenly entered the church and some of their customs inevitably crept into the liturgy; the use of the kiss as a sign of reverence for holy objects, the practice of genuflection, devotion to relics, and the use of candles, incense and other ceremonial features derived from the imperial court. Under this pagan influence Christians began to face the east while praying which made it necessary or he priest to lead prayers with his back to the congregation." P42.3
 
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BobRyan

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My edit of your table/diagram
Church EraExamples
Ephesus - 31 AD - 100 ADJesus Ministry, early church
Smyrna - 100 AD - 313 AD (nothing bad said about this church)Church under Pagan Rome Persecution
Pergamum - 313 - 538Rise of Papacy
Thyatira - 538 - 1565 (the longest church age of persecution)Schism, Crusades, Inquisition
Sardis - 1565 - 1740 (reformation of the church, discarding hay, stubble, dross)Reformation
Philadelphia - 1740 - 1844 (nothing bad said about this church)Revival Reformation - 2nd great awakening
Laodicea - 1844 - Nowcomplacent Christianity
Christ's return 1 Thess 4:13-18 Tribulation and Rapture -- follows Laodicea
 
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