What is a "kind"?

[Split Rock]

The Bible gives no "clear" definition of the term KIND. I see kind as type. Humans are one kind, cows are another kind, hippopotamas are another kind. dogs are another kind, doves are one, and ravens are another. The Bible is specific in stating that one "kind" will not beget another "kind." The Bible doesn't; however, demonstrate a limit to variety WITHIN kinds.

How do you know doves and ravens are two different "Kinds?" How do you know that "birds" are not all one "Kind?" You're not just guessing are you?

Well here it is. My guess is that a few conveniently missed it

Doesn't seem like we missed anything. Calling "Kind" a "type" is hardly helpful. Also, can you tell us why we cannot or should not claim all birds are one "Kind?"

 

[Split Rock]

Wow --- anti-Semitism is alive and well, isn't it?

LOL! There was no anti-Semitism in my post. In terms of technology and knowledge of the world around them, Bronze-Age Hebrews were primitive.

 

[TheOutsider]

Well here it is. My guess is that a few conveniently missed it

That wasn't a definition, it was a synonym. Calling a "kind" the same thing as a "type" doesn't tell us anything about either. Are dogs, wolves and foxes of the same "type"?

 

[Molal]

LittleNipper, how do you know how to split up the 'kinds' that you have stated?

What are their defining characteristics?

 

[peteos]

How about this. Use whatever definition of kind, or whatever common sense you wish, or throw in the word type, and answer these questions.

Are foxes and dogs the same kind?

Are lions and tigers the same kind?

Lions and house cats?

 

[FishFace]

Paint yourselves into a corner then --- throw out the Documentation that can (and does) falsify it.

As we all know, since I predict with 100% accuracy, I am infallible. And I say you are wrong.

QED.

 

[Impaler]

Determining different kinds should be quite easy if they were as distinct as creationists insist. If we sequence the mtDNA or Y chromosome on any two organisms then if their most recent common ancestor was more than 4,400 years ago they're not the same kind. If there were in fact barriers between the kinds then we should be able to distinguish between them by tracing lineage back over the phylogenic tree. When we get to the path that evolution cannot cross than that would mean they're different kinds.

 

[tcampen]

How about this. Use whatever definition of kind, or whatever common sense you wish, or throw in the word type, and answer these questions.

Are foxes and dogs the same kind?

Are lions and tigers the same kind?

And where does a "liger" fit in?

It's pretty much my favorite animal.

 

[ReverendDG]

And where does a "liger" fit in?

It's pretty much my favorite animal.

how about a tigon? or a tiliger? i believe thats a name of a tigon mated to a tiger i believe
something like that
used to have a website on it but i lost it in the great vista install

 

[ReverendDG]

Paint yourselves into a corner then --- throw out the Documentation that can (and does) falsify it.

i don't know if you are being ironic or not.. but i find it ironic.. this quote is exactly what creationists do pretty much all the time!

 

[gamespotter10]

I know we've tried this before, but it seems to have cropped up in quite a few threads lately, so I thought I might give the creationists another chance.

Creationists, can you please give a clear and concise definition of a "kind". In order to be complete, any person using the definition needs to be able to tell from the definition which "kind" any living thing (whether currently alive or extinct) would be part of. The classification must be the same for every user of the definition, so you can't appeal to "common sense", which isn't common and is frequently not good sense.

In order for the definition to be of any use to creationists, of course, nothing from one "kind" must have evolved from something of another "kind".

Once we have this definition, we'll all be overjoyed - scientists because we won't have to keep asking for this definition, creationists because they will now have a falsifiable prediction of creationism - that nothing can evolve out of its own "kind".

the term "kind" is a made up term. there is no official definition of the word kind.

 

[TheOutsider]

i don't know if you are being ironic or not.. but i find it ironic.. this quote is exactly what creationists do pretty much all the time!

AV has absolutely no sense of irony. He often accuses others of faults that he himself is guilty of.

 

[TheBear]

32 posts, a lot of hot air, accusations, and peripheral replies, and still no clear-cut definition of the term "kind", as used in the Bible.

This question should be an easy one for those well studied in the Bible.....especially for those who refer almost exclusively to the Bible, in just about every one of their thousands of posts.

What's the problem?

 

[MoonLancer]

32 posts, a lot of hot air, accusations, and peripheral replies, and still no clear-cut definition of the term "kind", as used in the Bible.

This question should be an easy one for those well studied in the Bible.....especially for those who refer almost exclusively to the Bible, in just about every one of their thousands of posts.

What's the problem?

Creationists are ignorant and don't understand that the complex methodology's behind science. they think you can just make junk up, because they have been doing it for quite a while.

Creationists, you will never win against evolution because they don't understand it. To defeat your enemy you must know them better then they know themselves.

its not even like this is a science forum. this is a Christian forum. One would think here of all places, creationists could thrive. Its just sad. pathetically sad, how they cant even answer their definitions to words they themselves make up. This is why you lost at dover creationists. because you have nothing in the way of science. nothing.

 

[Krak]

I don't need a "falsifiable prediction of creationism" in order to be overjoyed.

Evolution can't occur because God is a god of boundaries, and has set boundaries that [alleles, DNA, genes, whatever] cannot cross.

Because we all know that the existence of a god is proven fact

 

[Aron-Ra]

AV has absolutely no sense of irony. He often accuses others of faults that he himself is guilty of.

I find that lots of creationists do that. They usually accuse me of things I'm not guilty of and they are. Its like they're trying to project their faults onto me. I refer to it as "the pot calling the silverware black."

 

[Aron-Ra]

this is a Christian forum. One would think here of all places, creationists could thrive. Its just sad. pathetically sad, how they cant even answer their definitions to words they themselves make up. This is why you lost at dover creationists. because you have nothing in the way of science. nothing.

Would that we could have something equivilent to a national TV show wherein the general public could see these debates. After seeing "AV" and FoeHammer and Dad in action, how many Americans could seriously still be creationists anymore? Americans generally won't read anything with big words, and we want each reply to be researched rather than on-the-fly. So it would have to be a series of video blogs. I'd love to find myself pitted against Ken Hamm or anyone else like him in a situation like that.

 

[necroforest]

You silly evolutionists. A"kind" is whatever amount of evolutionary change that is too large to be seen in a human lifetime.

 

[Molal]

32 posts, a lot of hot air, accusations, and peripheral replies, and still no clear-cut definition of the term "kind", as used in the Bible.

This question should be an easy one for those well studied in the Bible.....especially for those who refer almost exclusively to the Bible, in just about every one of their thousands of posts.

What's the problem?

Exactly, no one can define 'kind'.

It is nebulous, a throw-away word used in an argument. It has no real meaning in its context.

And this is what creationists want - a discussion that uses words that are undefined and cannot be defined. They bring up ideas and change the goal posts. How insincere and dishonest can you get.

 

[LittleNipper]

i don't know if you are being ironic or not.. but i find it ironic.. this quote is exactly what creationists do pretty much all the time!

Evolution is a form of self-worship in the name of science....