What is a cult?

[Albion]

Albion,

While I agree that there are some in the "modern tongues-speaking phenomenon" who may give "bogus" manifestations, I cannot agree with any statement that this affirms that all of modern tongue speaking is bogus. I have been in gatherings where God ministered to me through tongues and interpretation.

It comes as no surprise to me that those who are convinced of the genuineness of the modern tongues movement say that...well...they are convinced of the genuineness of it. Why would I expect them to say anything else?

However, feeling that God was present and that you were ministered to through tongues doesn't prove it to have been true. I'm sure you know this.

 

[Son of Israel]

Only the two items I highlighted in blue would be indicators of a cult. Most of the others are not even close to being definers or even characteristics of a "cult." Lutherans are not in a cult. Pentecostal Christians (some of whom dress distinctively) are not in a cult. And for sure we aren't able to identify a cult by the shape of the building!

In your own opinion Albion.

The fact is, one of those two points above you have highlighted as being of a cult, Walter Martin in His book "Kingdom of the Cults" says those who believe otherwise are identified as a cult.
Shall I take his word for it? or yours? How about neither...

Lutherans or Pentecostals aren't cults? They believe as your second point indicates you agree as being of a cult...

A cult could very well be something much beyond your scope of qualification. Instead of disagreeing, you might pray about it and consider it a little more...

A building... can you point out where any disciples or apostles met in "church buildings" in scripture? Or that they only met on a certain day of the week? Or that the building was to appear a certain way?
Can you not look at a building today and know that those who worship there are of a cult? Many sons of God can. Many on this forum would know.

Can you not see particular individuals and their dress and know exactly what religion they are part of and that it is a religious cult? Many on this forum would know.

Cults are numerous under many names. Many more than you probably know. Sad but true.

Son of Israel

 

[Albion]

In your own opinion Albion.

What a snappy retort. But in fact you are wrong about that, too. What I was saying is based upon my knowledge of the authorities in the field, the authors, the cult-watching organization, etc. which have decades of experience in studying cults and explaining them to people. No, it's hardly my own opinion alone.

Lutherans or Pentecostals aren't cults? They believe as your second point indicates you agree as being of a cult...

They worship some other God that is not the Christian god? that's just nonsense, and Walter Martin, whom you mentioned, doesn't agree with your POV in the least. Everyone else here knows better than to think that such churches are cults.

A building... can you point out where any disciples or apostles met in "church buildings" in scripture?

Well, you see that this is exactly the point. A cult is not defined as any church or religious movement which has a different "take" on scripture than you personally do. This should be obvious.

Can you not look at a building today and know that those who worship there are of a cult? Many sons of God can. Many on this forum would know.

Right. It's easy to see which storefront houses a cult and which houses a non-denominational Bible church. I guess you look for the "Cult meets here" sign on the awning. It's too ridiculous.

But enough of this tit-for-tat. There is a theological definition for cults...and you aren't very close to it, shooting from the hip as you are. But there's also a psychologists' use of the term, which is well-traveled among those concerned about mind-control, drug use, and so on. These can be found in some religious communities whose theology does NOT qualify as cultic.

You've not only identified erroneous religioius characteristics but mixed the two together according to your own personal preferences.

 

[2ducklow]

all this talk about who is and who isn't a cult is just a means to label another church that disagrees with you as non christian. No one believes people in a cult are christians, and that is the whole point of labeling another church a cult. The bible says nothing about cults. the bible speaks of who christians are in the terms of who knows God the father and Jesus, who is born again, who believes Jesus is the christ the son of god etc. there is no mention in the bible of any of the reasons given in here for labeling a denomination a cult, and thereby as non christians. The whole point of calling others a cult is because they don't want to consider them as brothers in the lord so they invent reasons , non biblical reasons why they are not christians, such as they go to a church founded by a man, so they are a cult and not christians,


You can obey the bible and be labeled a fanatical cult. I can name the scriptures that if your chuch obeys them you will immediatly be called a cult.

 

[Son of Israel]

What a snappy retort. But in fact you are wrong about that, too. What I was saying is based upon my knowledge of the authorities in the field, the authors, the cult-watching organization, etc. which have decades of experience in studying cults and explaining them to people. No, it's hardly my own opinion alone.


They worship some other God that is not the Christian god? that's just nonsense, and Walter Martin, whom you mentioned, doesn't agree with your POV in the least. Everyone else here knows better than to think that such churches are cults.


Well, you see that this is exactly the point. A cult is not defined as any church or religious movement which has a different "take" on scripture than you personally do. This should be obvious.


Right. It's easy to see which storefront houses a cult and which houses a non-denominational Bible church. I guess you look for the "Cult meets here" sign on the awning. It's too ridiculous.

But enough of this tit-for-tat. There is a theological definition for cults...and you aren't very close to it, shooting from the hip as you are. But there's also a psychologists' use of the term, which is well-traveled among those concerned about mind-control, drug use, and so on. These can be found in some religious communities whose theology does NOT qualify as cultic.

You've not only identified erroneous religioius characteristics but mixed the two together according to your own personal preferences.

Dear Albion,
I am not bound by the Spirit of Christ to use your theological definitions of what a cult is, nor is it of my own personal preferences. Nor must I conform to your "authorities in the field" to know what a cult is. Nor am I under the illusion that it is a "majority" who knows what a cult is. Nor does Walter Martin have a clue either.
If you are of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, you will know a little about how Jesus Christ sees things and you won't be under the carnal veil of how a man sees things to base what a cult is or not.

Must Jesus conform to your definition of a "cult" to know what a cult is?

I think not.

If you would like to have a conversation of things from His Perspective, then speak. You can refer to any one of the points I made and ask if you like and I will explain. Otherwise I am not interested.

Son of Israel

 

[Son of Israel]

all this talk about who is and who isn't a cult is just a means to label another church that disagrees with you as non christian. No one believes people in a cult are christians, and that is the whole point of labeling another church a cult. The bible says nothing about cults. the bible speaks of who christians are in the terms of who knows God the father and Jesus, who is born again, who believes Jesus is the christ the son of god etc. there is no mention in the bible of any of the reasons given in here for labeling a denomination a cult, and thereby as non christians. The whole point of calling others a cult is because they don't want to consider them as brothers in the lord so they invent reasons , non biblical reasons why they are not christians, such as they go to a church founded by a man, so they are a cult and not christians,


You can obey the bible and be labeled a fanatical cult. I can name the scriptures that if your chuch obeys them you will immediatly be called a cult.

My "Church" is the Israel Bride of Christ and knows, understands and believes those scriptures. It matters not if someone refers to the Body of Christ as a cult, it is their own issue to deal with. So call me of that cult who believes those scriptures. Does that make me of a cult?
To Christ, those who follow after the teachings of men are lost. It is true that the Bible doesn't use the word cult, but the definition of cult is, from a man's definition;

1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion.4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.7.the members of such a religion or sect.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.


Yes, the world is full of members of individual sects pointing fingers at others claiming they are cults. So do we rely on man's definition? Not neccesarily, but we can use it to a certain extent in general... after all, this thread has to do with "cults". Shall we delete the thread because the word "cult" isn't in the Bible?
ok with me.
But while it is here, we can all be free to address it, may we not?

The point should be though, if there is such a thing as a "cult", should it not be addressed from the perspective of Jesus Christ Himself? Did He not indeed deal with the "cultish" behaviour of the teachings of men at the hands of the Pharisees? Were they not a cult? Are they not now a cult? Is He not dealing with members of "cults" today in His Gospel of Salvation? Ask a Jew he will tell you He's not of a cult. (As a former Jew I understand why, but ask me now...) Importantly though, ask Jesus and you will get a straight answer.

Manny was in a cult.
I was in a cult.

Cultish behaviour and those trapped therein is a very real thing, regardless of the "word" used.

Back to the original point though, "cultish behaviour" in the Christian churches today is rampant. It is silly to argue that point. Rather, should we not know from Christ's perspective what is a "cult" then, (aka man spawned worship system)?
whatever you want to call it, it is real and it is dangerous, and only Christ has the Spirit of comprehension as to how to see it.
If one can see with His Spirit one will know then.

Otherwise, this will make no sense to that person and he will never see the danger associated with the cults of Christendom.

This is simply a word to the wise.

Blessings,
Son of Israel

 

[2ducklow]

My "Church" is the Israel Bride of Christ and knows, understands and believes those scriptures. It matters not if someone refers to the Body of Christ as a cult, it is their own issue to deal with. So call me of that cult who believes those scriptures. Does that make me of a cult?
To Christ, those who follow after the teachings of men are lost. It is true that the Bible doesn't use the word cult, but the definition of cult is, from a man's definition;

1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

you could say this about any church.

2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

Like they venerated Luther, and cambell, or Sister Aimee? Or that Methodist guy?

Most every denomination was started by someone whom it's memebers venerate. Paul was a strong leader was he not?

3.the object of such devotion.

this doesn't apply to the vast majority of christian so called cults.

4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

kinda vague. baptist emphasis water baptism but I wouln't call that verneration of baptism. If by veneration one means emphasis, then every church is a cult for every church emphasises something.

5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

kinda vague.

6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

like the quakers or mennointes? or is it not a cult if they live outside society but don't have one charsimatic preacher? what if a church has a charismatic preacher? are they a cult? most preachers want to be charismatic. (in the non speaking in tounges sense of the word charismatic.)

7.the members of such a religion or sect.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.[/qutoe] Like if someone has the gift of knowledge listed in 1 cor. they are a cult. so obeying the bible makes one a cult.

clearly, at least to me , the word cult is just used to throw stones at others.

Yes, the world is full of members of individual sects pointing fingers at others claiming they are cults. So do we rely on man's definition? Not neccesarily, but we can use it to a certain extent in general... after all, this thread has to do with "cults". Shall we delete the thread because the word "cult" isn't in the Bible?

No, i'm just pointing out that the real definition of cult, as it is used by most everyone, is to label any denomination that that person has a problem with as a cult. it's a way of throwing stones at those they disagree with.

ok with me.
But while it is here, we can all be free to address it, may we not?

course you can, and i'm free to say the word cult is just a way of sluring others they don't like. It is also used to prove that whatever they say is wrong. "hey they are wroing cause they are a cult they don't believe this like we do."

The point should be though, if there is such a thing as a "cult", should it not be addressed from the perspective of Jesus Christ Himself? Did He not indeed deal with the "cultish" behaviour of the teachings of men at the hands of the Pharisees? Were they not a cult? Are they not now a cult? Is He not dealing with members of "cults" today in His Gospel of Salvation? Ask a Jew he will tell you He's not of a cult. (As a former Jew I understand why, but ask me now...) Importantly though, ask Jesus and you will get a straight answer.

I wouldn't call Jewish religon a cult, I would call it an incomplete relgion, that has some erronious interpreatations of scritprues. Course every christian church has some erronious interpretations of scritpures.

.

Manny was in a cult.
I was in a cult.

Cultish behaviour and those trapped therein is a very real thing, regardless of the "word" used.

I was in a church a long t ime ago that many consider to be a cult, I don't, They are born again and spirit filled christians with some wrong understandings, so people call them a cult which proves they are wrong about anything and everything. which is one of the reasons for labeling a church a cult.

.

Back to the original point though, "cultish behaviour" in the Christian churches today is rampant. It is silly to argue that point. Rather, should we not know from Christ's perspective what is a "cult" then, (aka man spawned worship system)?

I would call the prosperity doctrine that many churches teach , a false doctrine. You perhaps would call it cultish behavior. I don't use the word cult because to me it is primarily a slur word.

whatever you want to call it, it is real and it is dangerous, and only Christ has the Spirit of comprehension as to how to see it.
If one can see with His Spirit one will know then.

Otherwise, this will make no sense to that person and he will never see the danger associated with the cults of Christendom.

This is simply a word to the wise.
Blessings,
Son of Israel

every church has false teachings that hinder a persons growth in christ, obviously some churches have more false teaching than others. EVeryone should go to the best church he can find and do the best that he can in that church. God can change a virgin into a concubine, or a concubine into a queen, or a queen into the bride of christ. Do the best where you are and perhaps God will call you up to a higher calling. perhaps he will call you out of your church into deeper truth. It's more likely to happpen if one is doing the best he can and open in his heart to the truth. But god still speaks to his virgins, and concubines, he doens't reject them cause they haven't gone up higher in him.

 

[Son of Israel]

you could say this about any church.
Like they venerated Luther, and cambell, or Sister Aimee? Or that Methodist guy?[/i]

Most every denomination was started by someone whom it's memebers venerate. Paul was a strong leader was he not?

this doesn't apply to the vast majority of christian so called cults.

kinda vague. baptist emphasis water baptism but I wouln't call that verneration of baptism. If by veneration one means emphasis, then every church is a cult for every church emphasises something.
kinda vague.
like the quakers or mennointes? or is it not a cult if they live outside society but don't have one charsimatic preacher? what if a church has a charismatic preacher? are they a cult? most preachers want to be charismatic. (in the non speaking in tounges sense of the word charismatic.)

7.the members of such a religion or sect.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.[/qutoe] Like if someone has the gift of knowledge listed in 1 cor. they are a cult. so obeying the bible makes one a cult.

clearly, at least to me , the word cult is just used to throw stones at others.
No, i'm just pointing out that the real definition of cult, as it is used by most everyone, is to label any denomination that that person has a problem with as a cult. it's a way of throwing stones at those they disagree with.
course you can, and i'm free to say the word cult is just a way of sluring others they don't like. It is also used to prove that whatever they say is wrong. "hey they are wroing cause they are a cult they don't believe this like we do."
I wouldn't call Jewish religon a cult, I would call it an incomplete relgion, that has some erronious interpreatations of scritprues. Course every christian church has some erronious interpretations of scritpures.
I was in a church a long t ime ago that many consider to be a cult, I don't, They are born again and spirit filled christians with some wrong understandings, so people call them a cult which proves they are wrong about anything and everything. which is one of the reasons for labeling a church a cult.

I would call the prosperity doctrine that many churches teach , a false doctrine. You perhaps would call it cultish behavior. I don't use the word cult because to me it is primarily a slur word.

every church has false teachings that hinder a persons growth in christ, obviously some churches have more false teaching than others. EVeryone should go to the best church he can find and do the best that he can in that church. God can change a virgin into a concubine, or a concubine into a queen, or a queen into the bride of christ. Do the best where you are and perhaps God will call you up to a higher calling. perhaps he will call you out of your church into deeper truth. It's more likely to happpen if one is doing the best he can and open in his heart to the truth. But god still speaks to his virgins, and concubines, he doens't reject them cause they haven't gone up higher in him.

You like to argue or something??
This isn't about you or what you think. Nor is it about me or what I think.
There is only one true Church, whether you agree or not. That Church is the Body of Christ, His Bride. There is no other.
It is about what Christ thinks. It is about what is discerned by the Spirit of Christ.
Your opinion of things doesn't matter, Neither does mine. Try to think instead. Just don't attempt to parse out what I say as if you are an authority with insight above what Christ just very well may be wanting you to know. How might you know it if you don't put a nickles worth of thought into it? From your replies you haven't done a penny's worth. If you don't like the word "cult", which is what this thread is about, then perhaps there is a better thread for you somewhere else.
Think about it.

 

[2ducklow]

you could say this about any church.
Like they venerated Luther, and cambell, or Sister Aimee? Or that Methodist guy?[/i]

Most every denomination was started by someone whom it's memebers venerate. Paul was a strong leader was he not?

this doesn't apply to the vast majority of christian so called cults.

kinda vague. baptist emphasis water baptism but I wouln't call that verneration of baptism. If by veneration one means emphasis, then every church is a cult for every church emphasises something.
kinda vague.
like the quakers or mennointes? or is it not a cult if they live outside society but don't have one charsimatic preacher? what if a church has a charismatic preacher? are they a cult? most preachers want to be charismatic. (in the non speaking in tounges sense of the word charismatic.)



You like to argue or something??
This isn't about you or what you think. Nor is it about me or what I think.
There is only one true Church, whether you agree or not. That Church is the Body of Christ, His Bride. There is no other.
It is about what Christ thinks. It is about what is discerned by the Spirit of Christ.
Your opinion of things doesn't matter, Neither does mine. Try to think instead. Just don't attempt to parse out what I say as if you are an authority with insight above what Christ just very well may be wanting you to know. How might you know it if you don't put a nickles worth of thought into it? From your replies you haven't done a penny's worth. If you don't like the word "cult", which is what this thread is about, then perhaps there is a better thread for you somewhere else.
Think about it.

I must have hit a raw nerve or something here.

 

[Son of Israel]

I must have hit a raw nerve or something here.

You did...

You said, "I wouldn't call the Jewish religon a cult, I would call it an incomplete relgion, that has some erronious interpreatations of scritprues."

Duck, I was a "Jew". I am of a line of generations who venerated Judas for betraying Christ. I am of a line of generations upon whose heads the blood of Christ is cursed willingly by their own mouths. I am personally guilty for crucifying the King of the Jews by my own willfull sins against Him. I am of a line of generations who are Pharisees to the core this very day. Teaching the commandments of men, liars, den of vipers, hypocrites, of their father the devil etc etc. I am of a line of generations who killed the prophets that YHVH sent to them in Love. Stoned my brothers Stephen and Paul, and how many others? Even unto this day is the Church under attack by that Jewish Harlot of abominations drunken with the blood of the saints. Stars of Heaven swept down by the false prophecies of that blood red dragon the world calls "Jews".

Then you have the gall to tell me you know more of what a cult is or isn't than I do... and THEN you specifically say the Jewish religion isn't a cult but just "has some erroneous interpretations of Scripture... wow.

Yes, you hit a seriously raw nerve with that ignorant statement. Think before speaking next time and ask Jesus before you comment about things you obviously know very little of, PLEASE.

Son of Israel

 

[czali]

cult-ure.

American cult-ure.
European cult-ure.
African cult-ures.

cult. probably an often misused word. To Catholics, even the Baptist church is cult.. do not try to tell me otherwise, I was told so directly by a catholic priest.. the Baptist church is a cult.

Needless to say.. I went straight back to my cult, preferring it to the institution.

 

[2ducklow]

cult-ure.

American cult-ure.
European cult-ure.
African cult-ures.

cult. probably an often misused word. To Catholics, even the Baptist church is cult.. do not try to tell me otherwise, I was told so directly by a catholic priest.. the Baptist church is a cult.

Needless to say.. I went straight back to my cult, preferring it to the institution.

My pastor says a cult is any group that doesn't believe like your group does.

 

[czali]

My pastor says a cult is any group that doesn't believe like your group does.

I'd say your pastor is a well educated man in the ways of group.

I guess the label of 'cult' would then require a steadfast and properly pre-defined group.

 

[2ducklow]

I'd say your pastor is a well educated man in the ways of group.

I guess the label of 'cult' would then require a steadfast and properly pre-defined group.

hummmmmm , not sure if i just got insulted or if you are agreeing with me.