What is a counter-missionary?

[yonah_mishael]

I just realized tonight that those who are outside of the loop might not understand what a counter-missionary is.

What a counter-missionary is not

A counter-missionary is not someone who operates as a missionary who seeks to counter the claims of Christianity. This is something that came to me tonight. I never thought about how a Christian might perceive a counter-missionary, but I realized that this just might be how they perceive counter-missionaries. How do Christians understand the role of a counter-missionary? (Please, provide your thoughts below.)

What a counter-missionary is

Very bluntly - a counter-missionary is one who is opposed to missionary outreach to Jews, one who offers counter-argumentation to provide information to Jewish people who have been confronted by missionaries and taught that the Christian claims regarding the Jewish Bible should be taken at face value. It is the job of a counter-missionary to offer proofs supporting traditional Judaism, to discuss the meaning of the texts of the Jewish Bible in light of Judaism and the Hebrew language, and to demonstrate the weakness of the arguments of missionaries - who would convert Jews out of Judaism, take them away from Torah and introduce them to another religion - whether it's called "Christianity" or "Messianic Judaism".

I was asked yesterday if I'm a counter-missionary. I'm not a counter-missionary, since I do not confront missionaries head-on. I support the work of counter-missionaries. I believe that missionaries are crafty and dishonest, and that's been demonstrated time and again.

But this does not mean that I am opposed to Christians believing whatever they wish from their own faith. I'm not opposed to Christianity, per se. I'm opposed to deception on the behalf of the missionaries. There is a difference.

In the end, I'm curious -- what is the view of Messianics regarding counter-missionaries? How do you define a counter-missionary, and what is his work?

Thanks,
YM

 

[yedida]

I think we Messies have about the same problem. We are constantly be hit over the head with the book of Gal. and Eph. to start. We are called jewannabes, unsaved, to name a few and these are the nice terms, aaaah yeah, I forgot we are Judaizers of the worst sort. Who could possibly think that Jesus doesn't serve honeybaked ham on his december birthday each year????
So, yeah, we get it from the main-stream christians. What doesn't seem to register with the main-streamers is that other than kashrut, the things they are fighting so hard against are the fun, awesome moadim, they already obey just about everything else, they just don't do it consciously out of a desire to be obedient.
Sorry, didn't mean to get preachy. (One of my "buttons")

 

[visionary]

Self preservation or in this case.. preserving Judaism is a self preserving mechanism and it has its good and bad points.... is it really preserving traditions or the truth? Probably a bit of both... because of the self preserving mechanism, Judaism has created a wall of exclusiveness and been able to exist in the face of assault from all directions for over two thousand years.

Every faith does it... watch the counter-missionarism go into effect when the truth is brought forth regarding RCC history, doctrine, creeds, and traditions and their relationship to Biblical truth.

May the Lord shine His light upon the heart and lead His people from the lies and into more truth that is shining forth here in the last days. May we all be free to follow Him. May we have the eyes to see the difference, the ears to hear and the wisdom to understand where God stands on any issue. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.. Let us all humbly recognise that and shed the encapsulating names, their meanings, and all that they represent to be with Him.

 

[yedida]

I praise Hashem for Vis, she very often is our stablizer around here!! She's a treasure.

 

[yedida]

I would rather see a person sincerely wrong, than try to get them "on the right road" thru deceptive means any old day. I pray daily that what others see in/of me is what will make them ask, what makes me so joyful, so calm, so assured in this crazy world. Then I'm off and running! But not until asked, until then I'll just keep on preaching without saying a word.

 

[Desert Rose]

I would rather see a person sincerely wrong, than try to get them "on the right road" thru deceptive means any old day. I pray daily that what others see in/of me is what will make them ask, what makes me so joyful, so calm, so assured in this crazy world. Then I'm off and running! But not until asked, until then I'll just keep on preaching without saying a word.

excellently well said, too!
You know, iam a big pronent of such approach. One of the best compliments I ever recieved from a young boy "wow, lady, every christian I ever seen was an ass, and you seem to be normal and worthy of listening to"

thanks to you and vis and a few more people I also see normal and sane messianics that make the theology worthy of checking out and learning from mutual discussions

 

[yedida]

Thanks for the encouragement DR.

 

[anisavta]

The ones I've encountered and observed in Israel are not nice people. I do know that.

 

[yonah_mishael]

The ones I've encountered and observed in Israel are not nice people. I do know that.

What do you mean when you say "the ones"?

 

[yedida]

What I find so heartwrenching is that even the traditional Christians have jumped on the Messianic bandwagon now. It wasn't too long ago that on some TV show on (I think) God Network Channel (or something like that) there was a pastor and a rabbi (I think his name was Damiel Lapin?) selling talliot consecrated and blessed by holy anointing oil and these would bring healing for the wearers' ills! I just cried.
I've seen that more than once since then. They've already manipulated the holy Scriptures into almost nothing but mantra, now they're rolling into this, selling healings and blessings by use of the Jewish traditions or God's commandments. It's a disgrace and a shame to them.

 

[anisavta]

By ones I mean the people who have blocked doors of Messianic gatherings by swearing at even the children walking in. The people that have stood in the front yard of Messianic believers for an hour once a week yelling obscenities with blowhorns. They also posted wanted posters with the names and faces of these people warning them of stealing souls.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Where are you? Are you in Arad?

Where I live, we have Christians & Messianics who live regular lives. I've got a few students in my school who openly admit to being Christians in Israel - and they are Jewish. It's not something that anyone here would ever think about addressing. They're free to believe whatever they want!

However, when Jews for Jesus came to town last year with their blue t-shirts saying ישוע = ישועה and walking through town, handing out tracts and talking to people about Jesus, that was enough to upset people. Israel does not like missionaries.

Where have you seen these attacks? Are the people who are suffering involved in missionary activities (that is, conversion ministries), or are they just trying to live their daily lives with their personal faith? I really think it makes a difference in Israel.

 

[anisavta]

Will PM you.

 

[anisavta]

Most are just trying to live their lives among their fellow neighbors.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Most are just trying to live their lives among their fellow neighbors.

You must understand. There are groups within Israel who would oppose even other Jewish groups -- let alone those whom they consider to have left Judaism and gone to another religion. There didn't use to be such pressure put on "faith" in Judaism (that is, adhering to a certain religious doctrine or set of beliefs), but in recent years it's almost as if you're not allowed free thought (in some religious communities). The problem is that the religious communities have touched -- the haredim who shout louder than any other group, and the Messianics who also must "live out loud" ("For if you deny me before me...."). This has led to tension.

Have those in Arad (that I saw on a few youtube videos) ever considered moving to a more stable area? Why would you want to live in the desert with a bunch of extremists?

 

[anisavta]

I personally don't like the desert, but the community itself is beautiful. It's layout is very user friendly. It's the whole idea of - if G~d calls you to live somewhere - you do it even under opposition. Frankly I like Jewish Quarter best.

 

[yonah_mishael]

I'm not coming down on the desert. It's gorgeous. But, living in the desert is like living in Missouri - you're bound to run into some extremists!

 

[Tishri1]

Question for all MJs: How then do we MJs take to heart the great commission of Yeshua who said to go to the Jew first and then to the world and spread the Gospel?


Seems we would dishonor our Lord if we just ignore this whole people group, and why was it important to Him that we go to them first?

I just realized tonight that those who are outside of the loop might not understand what a counter-missionary is.

What a counter-missionary is not

A counter-missionary is not someone who operates as a missionary who seeks to counter the claims of Christianity. This is something that came to me tonight. I never thought about how a Christian might perceive a counter-missionary, but I realized that this just might be how they perceive counter-missionaries. How do Christians understand the role of a counter-missionary? (Please, provide your thoughts below.)

What a counter-missionary is

Very bluntly - a counter-missionary is one who is opposed to missionary outreach to Jews, one who offers counter-argumentation to provide information to Jewish people who have been confronted by missionaries and taught that the Christian claims regarding the Jewish Bible should be taken at face value. It is the job of a counter-missionary to offer proofs supporting traditional Judaism, to discuss the meaning of the texts of the Jewish Bible in light of Judaism and the Hebrew language, and to demonstrate the weakness of the arguments of missionaries - who would convert Jews out of Judaism, take them away from Torah and introduce them to another religion - whether it's called "Christianity" or "Messianic Judaism".

I was asked yesterday if I'm a counter-missionary. I'm not a counter-missionary, since I do not confront missionaries head-on. I support the work of counter-missionaries. I believe that missionaries are crafty and dishonest, and that's been demonstrated time and again.

But this does not mean that I am opposed to Christians believing whatever they wish from their own faith. I'm not opposed to Christianity, per se. I'm opposed to deception on the behalf of the missionaries. There is a difference.

In the end, I'm curious -- what is the view of Messianics regarding counter-missionaries? How do you define a counter-missionary, and what is his work?

Thanks,
YM

 

[visionary]

Are we not going to them first by being in their midst and being friends? Our deeds should speak louder than our words and thus witness the love we have for them.

 

[yedida]

Are we not going to them first by being in their midst and being friends? Our deeds should speak louder than our words and thus witness the love we have for them.

A question that goes back some in time from when Yeshua walked among his people.
Was Judea or the Jews known as "Israel" back then, even tho they originally were called Judah, and the northern kingdom was called "Israel." Could not the "lost sheep" really literally be the "lost" as they weren't as lost back then as now, not as assimultad as now, there were still records that could have been studied, weren't there?

But, of course, if that's the case, it opens up the question as to why would Yeshua have stayed in that area when it was his time to preach......

Guess I'm just ruminating......