What impact did the FALL of Adam have ?

[cygnusx1]

I don'tt and a large percentage of them are blameless in the sight of God.

YES , THEY ARE CALLED CHRISTIANS !

 

[Ormly]

YES , THEY ARE CALLED CHRISTIANS !

The sinning or the non-sinning variety?

 

[cygnusx1]

The sinning or the non-sinning variety?

do you know of any that do not sin ?


there is none perfect on this earth , none who do not need saving , none who are beyond the need of forgiveness and Grace.

 

[Ormly]

do you know of any that do not sin ?

Yep

there is none perfect on this earth , none who do not need saving , none who are beyond the need of forgiveness and Grace.

Only God is perfect, so your accusation can never apply.
However, you are aiming at Christians who have the indwelling perfect Nature of God within them? You do have that indwelling you, no?

 

[cygnusx1]

Yep

what you know some Christians who never sin ? are you one of em

Only God is perfect, so your accusation can never apply.
However, you are aiming at Christians who have the indwelling perfect Nature of God within them? You do have that indwelling you, no?

you say some Christians are sinless but only God is perfect /

well if i was perfect i would be sinless.

 

[Ormly]

what you know some Christians who never sin ? are you one of em





you say some Christians are sinless but only God is perfect /

well if i was perfect i would be sinless.

Then you are saying you are not a Christian? I see. Now all your posts make sense.
What are you then if not a Christian.? This forum is supposed to be for Christians only. Thats what I have been lead to believe. How come you are here?

 

[cygnusx1]

Then you are saying you are not a Christian? I see. Now all your posts make sense.
What are you then if not a Christian.? This forum is supposed to be for Christians only. Thats what I have been lead to believe. How come you are here?

come back when you have something to say that makes any sense... until then i will be busy.

 

[vekarppe]

howabout your gonna sin from birth ?

Infants do not sin, cygnusx. Whatever sinful inclinations they are born with, infants are incapable of moral good or evil.

 

[Ormly]

come back when you have something to say that makes any sense... until then i will be busy.

I am only responding to what you have been offering up, i.e., nonsense.

 

[cygnusx1]

Infants do not sin, cygnusx. Whatever sinful inclinations they are born with, infants are incapable of moral good or evil.

scripture please

 

[vekarppe]

scripture please

Morality presupposes knowledge and ability to do wrong. Infants lack of both. They aren't conscious of right and wrong, and so they cannot sin. Think about animals. They can kill, but don't murder; they can take, but don't steal. Now, Paul says in Romans 5:13 that "sin is not counted where there is no law," or, as we can say, consciousness of right and wrong. This doesn't verify that infants don't sin. However it imply that, as long as infants are without knowledge, they are free from guilty of sin. "Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." (James 4:17) This is interesting. No doubt, childs can do wrong things, just like animals, but when they don't know "the right thing to do" they cannot sin.

Now I'll challenge you. Where does the Bible affirm that infants do sin?

 

[Theophorus]

Morality presupposes knowledge and ability to do wrong. Infants lack of both. They aren't conscious of right and wrong, and so they cannot sin. Think about animals. They can kill, but don't murder; they can take, but don't steal. Now, Paul says in Romans 5:13 that "sin is not counted where there is no law," or, as we can say, consciousness of right and wrong. This doesn't verify that infants don't sin. However it imply that, as long as infants are without knowledge, they are free from guilty of sin. "Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." (James 4:17) This is interesting. No doubt, childs can do wrong things, just like animals, but when they don't know "the right thing to do" they cannot sin.

Now I'll challenge you. Where does the Bible affirm that infants do sin?

The result of Adam's fall...depraved vegetation.

 

[vekarppe]

The result of Adam's fall...depraved vegetation.

 

[Theophorus]

Trees and flowers also die.

 

[vekarppe]

I see. Interesting, I haven't ever thought about that.

 

[Thekla]

is that it ?


howabout your gonna sin from birth ?

that (death) is why

 

[cygnusx1]

that (death) is why

surely the other way about , we die because we sin?

 

[cygnusx1]

Morality presupposes knowledge and ability to do wrong. Infants lack of both. They aren't conscious of right and wrong, and so they cannot sin. Think about animals. They can kill, but don't murder; they can take, but don't steal. Now, Paul says in Romans 5:13 that "sin is not counted where there is no law," or, as we can say, consciousness of right and wrong. This doesn't verify that infants don't sin. However it imply that, as long as infants are without knowledge, they are free from guilty of sin. "Whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." (James 4:17) This is interesting. No doubt, childs can do wrong things, just like animals, but when they don't know "the right thing to do" they cannot sin.

Now I'll challenge you. Where does the Bible affirm that infants do sin?

Pss.51

[1] Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
[2] Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
[3] For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
[4] Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
[5] Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Pss.58

[1] Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
[2] Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
[3] The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


Romans 3

[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

#Knowledge is no prerequisite for sin ;

Luke 12

[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[vekarppe]

Pss.51

[1] Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
[2] Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
[3] For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
[4] Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
[5] Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Pss.58

[1] Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
[2] Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
[3] The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

There is two problems. First, none of these affirm that infants (can) sin. Secondly, they are poems. Now, how literally we ought to interpret poetry? Think about it. Look at verse 3 in Psalm 58; does infants speak lies?

Romans 3

[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

It is the same case with this one. Paul cites the Psalms to support his point that the Jews are just as sinful as the Gentiles, and in that way, no better. He is speaking generally.

I have to say now that I don't think infants are free from sinful tendencies, that is, depravity.

#Knowledge is no prerequisite for sin ;

Luke 12

[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I wouldn't hasten to take it that way, because we must consider it as parable. But it imply that servant who didn't know receive less severe punishment.

 

[cygnusx1]

There is two problems. First, none of these affirm that infants (can) sin. Secondly, they are poems. Now, how literally we ought to interpret poetry? Think about it. Look at verse 3 in Psalm 58; does infants speak lies?



It is the same case with this one. Paul cites the Psalms to support his point that the Jews are just as sinful as the Gentiles, and in that way, no better. He is speaking generally.

I have to say now that I don't think infants are free from sinful tendencies, that is, depravity.



I wouldn't hasten to take it that way, because we must consider it as parable. But it imply that servant who didn't know receive less severe punishment.

poetry and parables hey

yes , knowledge is no pre-requisite for sin.

if infants cannot sin then they don't need a saviour!

if infants cannot sin then they are innocent , how do innocent infants become capable of falling under God's displeasure , in other words why would God ever command infants to be slain , ever ?

i suppose you believe in the age of accountability , tell me when is a child accountable for their sin?

also the very essense of sin is to miss the mark as to the Glory of God , so "whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" , and what is not done for the Glory of God is also sin.