What if...

[AV1611VET]

Have you never heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?

Then skip prophecy, and I'll say the same thing.

The fact that Israel is still in existence, despite all attempts to eradicate her, shows divine protection.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Then skip prophecy, and I'll say the same thing.

The fact that Israel is still in existence, despite all attempts to eradicate her, shows divine protection.

Huh???

They only survived the ancient world BECAUSE they were surrounded by enemies.

Look at an ancient world map. See that blank area of land? It's quite dangerous. It's filled with barbarians. You see, if an emperor marches on your city, you can usually avoid the fight entirely by paying him tribute. He taxes you. If you are marched on by a barbarian army, you win or you are annihilated. Period. Jewish kings survived by bowing down and touching head to the ground.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Huh???

They only survived the ancient world BECAUSE they were surrounded by enemies.

Look at an ancient world map. See that blank area of land? It's quite dangerous. It's filled with barbarians. You see, if an emperor marches on your city, you can usually avoid the fight entirely by paying him tribute. He taxes you. If you are marched on by a barbarian army, you win or you are annihilated. Period. Jewish kings survived by bowing down and touching head to the ground.

You are quite a seer aren't you to so self-confidently make such a claim?!

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You are quite a seer aren't you to so self-confidently make such a claim?!

Seers predict the future. I'm explaining the past.

 

[radhead]

Seers predict the future. I'm explaining the past.

Isn't that the same thing that the Hebrew prophets did? They reflected on past events from what they saw as God's point of view.

 

[Wgw]

Isn't that the same thing that the Hebrew prophets did? They reflected on past events from what they saw as God's point of view.

They also predicted future events.

 

[radhead]

They also predicted future events.

Perhaps. But the same kind of thing happens every day. They were basically saying, If something doesn't change, then it is clear that a certain bad outcome will result because the people who are benefiting from the current situation are blind to facing the truth. This is just common sense and normal human behavior.

 

[radhead]

del

 

[Wgw]

Perhaps. But the same kind of thing happens every day. They were basically saying, If something doesn't change, then it is clear that a certain bad outcome will result because the people who are benefiting from the current situation are blind to facing the truth. This is just common sense and normal human behavior.

Indeed, although they also predicted certain future events that were inevitable, for example, the incarnation of our Lord. Of course, I say this from a subjective faith perspective; you can argue otherwise from a Judaic POV, and I can't object to such an argument on non-subjective grounds.

 

[Hawkins]

What if the stories and legends of the Bible were actually written as religious fables?

Will you be able to write fables then die for those fables?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Seers predict the future. I'm explaining the past.

I consider prophet and seer one and the same...can find instances of Bible prophets...esp of the NT...bringing out insight from some past Scripture (as revealed to them through the Spirit). Support: I Peter 1:10, Hebrews 11:19 and II Peter 2:7...these are citations of prophets who speculate as to motives of those long deceased.

However, you missed the point of my comment which is that you claim insight and knowledge from outside the Bible pertaining to methods of the Jewish nation (even motive) when it comes to warfare or survival among her enemies. Could you cite your source/s for us?

I

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I consider prophet and seer one and the same...can find instances of Bible prophets...esp of the NT...bringing out insight from some past Scripture (as revealed to them through the Spirit). Support: I Peter 1:10, Hebrews 11:19 and II Peter 2:7...these are citations of prophets who speculate as to motives of those long deceased.

However, you missed the point of my comment which is that you claim insight and knowledge from outside the Bible pertaining to methods of the Jewish nation (even motive) when it comes to warfare or survival among her enemies. Could you cite your source/s for us?

I

My sources:

College

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Isn't that the same thing that the Hebrew prophets did? They reflected on past events from what they saw as God's point of view.

Yes, although Christians generally won't accept this so she was not justified in her remark.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

My sources:

College

Perhaps the titles and/or authors of these college source books would shed a little more light.?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Perhaps the titles and/or authors of these college source books would shed a little more light.?

I was a math major. Not going to read those books. Those concepts are from lecture.

And besides, look at what I actually said and explain to me how it is wrong or nonsensical.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I was a math major. Not going to read those books. Those concepts are from lecture.

And besides, look at what I actually said and explain to me how it is wrong or nonsensical.

My first post to you here...referring to your comment as material only a seer of today might be able to produce (should he be competent before God)...I posted b/c you did not substantiate your claim/s. What one may infer from your comment is that the Bible accounts of Israel...the annihilation of many powerful and wicked nations resulting in the establishment of her as a nation as well as her leadership status was protected for ages (while they remained faithful to God)...all this you dismiss as untrue in favor of your comment.
Why should I accept that...I thought you were claiming history writes Israel's story this way...now it sounds as though rather that NV is the only one doing the claiming and not history. Bible to you seems to carry no authority...N.V.'s theories do? Why should one accept that?
Let me know please and then I will explain that it contradicts my source...the Bible account.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

My first post to you here...referring to your comment as material only a seer of today might be able to produce (should he be competent before God)...I posted b/c you did not substantiate your claim/s. What one may infer from your comment is that the Bible accounts of Israel...the annihilation of many powerful and wicked nations resulting in the establishment of her as a nation as well as her leadership status was protected for ages (while they remained faithful to God)...all this you dismiss as untrue in favor of your comment.
Why should I accept that...I thought you were claiming history writes Israel's story this way...now it sounds as though rather that NV is the only one doing the claiming and not history. Bible to you seems to carry no authority...N.V.'s theories do? Why should one accept that?
Let me know please and then I will explain that it contradicts my source...the Bible account.

The Bible carries some authority, but very little. Certain authors in it have been caught lying so I remain highly skeptical. Also I don't appreciate you making me out as arrogant. I'm not pushing my own ideas but rather things I have humbly learned from PhD's.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

This presupposes that the people of ancient times were stupider that we are. Aesops fables were really well written stories that are older than the Bible and yet, everyone knew they were just that fables.
However, instead archaeological digs keep finding things that give evidence to the truthfulness of the Bible.
That said, you are free to not believe. However, to my thinking, even if I wanted to believe that somehow there is not a God, I find way to much evidence in real life and science to indicate that this world can't be the result of random chance. And there is no way to "invent" the comfort that comes from the Holy Spirit.

I'm sorry, I do not like to criticize a fellow Christian, but Proverbs does say that iron sharpens iron so in that vein I comment:
Nothing is older than the Bible...no writings whatsoever. What are the opening words of Genesis?

I agree that there is much archaeological evidence to help substantiate the Bible, but it too will fall short for many. Faith comes from hearing the message and the message is the Word of God...Romans 10:17.

and...

We should be aware that all people should be considered potential future Christians/believers and that each individual is on their own timeline for a number of reasons known to us and certainly many reasons known only to God. Sometimes the Word appears to fall on deaf ears yet we later find that 'God' turned someone around later in their walk. Remember, we do not come to God on our own accord, it is the work of God in us:

Romans 8:28-30:
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The Bible carries some authority, but very little. Certain authors in it have been caught lying so I remain highly skeptical. Also I don't appreciate you making me out as arrogant. I'm not pushing my own ideas but rather things I have humbly learned from PhD's.

I am sorry if I seem to be making you out as arrogant. It is not my intention.
You will see this is not my intention by my line of inquiry to you...I asked your source and you just said college...thinking it was college history books I asked for titles and authors of those...I wanted to check out your point of view and your influences. Your answer was something about math books and so I concluded you were making your own educated guesses or inferences.

(Wondering who these PhDs are that call our Bible and thus our God a liar, though.)

I know that there is archaeological evidence of the movements of Israel out of Egypt and was hoping to springboard into a discussion on that with you.

Again, I hope we can have a rational discussion.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Your answer was something about math books and so I concluded you were making your own educated guesses or inferences.

Again, I hope we can have a rational discussion.

Kinda hard to have a rational discussion if you are admitting that you are just skimming my responses. I'm not writing a novel here. Read it word for word or else tell me you don’t care about my opinion. But don't tell me we're having a rational discussion while you don't even listen.

(Wondering who these PhDs are that call our Bible and thus our God a liar, though.)

What, you want me to look up the name of my Intro to the Bible professor?

I know that there is archaeological evidence of the movements of Israel out of Egypt and was hoping to springboard into a discussion on that with you.

I never contested that claim in my life. Why do you want to discuss this?