What if...

[radhead]

What if the stories and legends of the Bible were actually written as religious fables? But they were so well written that the people of the day believed they were true. They contained very real and human behavior, interacting with God the way that real people do. Even hearing what they thought was his audible voice at times. Having dreams and visions.

What if the Psalms were written by these people who did believe the stories were true? Perhaps some of the psalmists believed that the stories were true. We have no way of knowing this. But I do believe that the Psalms were very honest writings.

I believe that all people are good inside, and will only turn bad due to bad experiences and abuse.

And I believe the source of all abuse and bad experiences (at the root) originates from the desire for wealth. The desire to have more than is needed. People want to avoid work, and if they are successful and smart they can achieve this. Either by having an aggressive entrepreneurial spirit. Or by their intellect, getting a degree that enables them to have a "professional" career that doesn't really involve work. But which pays better than real workers would receive.

This wealth and privilege also leads to power and corruption. And it scares me that even today, people of privilege can get away with murder.

Anyway, I think this source of evil is what the writers of the Bible were trying to say. This was their central message. Whether in the form of stories or prophets. Sometimes the stories had an ironic message that many people did not apprehend. Some of these people living in darkness who may not even want to know the message.

That is why the religious people of Jesus's day had so much trouble with him. And I believe that most "Christians" today would reject Jesus. Because they are so much like the religious people back then.

 

[ReesePiece23]

I do struggle with the bible, I have to admit. I love my faith for what it is, and when I'm not joking around, I am a better person for having Christianity in my life. I believe in the death and the resurrection of Jesus, and understand what it stands for, but beyond that, my faith is very simple. I just try to dig as deep as I can as a human, whilst being as pleasant as possible to my peers by going that extra mile to help out a mate.

But, if humans can find a complicated way of doing something, then they'll surely find it. The Christian faith is in fact incredibly simple. God of course isn't, but the religion is. Which is why I tend to simplify most things. The bible to me is riddled with contradictions and metaphors, which make it nearly impossible to understand. It's not about disagreeing or agreeing with it for me, it's about understanding it. And since no two people ever give me the same answer to a question, it makes it even more baffling.

I'll be interested to see how this thread pans out...

 

[SnowyMacie]

There's a great quote by Crossan "We began [with the Enlightenment] to think that ancient peoples ("other" peoples) told dumb, literal stories that we were no smart enough to recognize as such. Not quite. Those ancient people told smart, metaphorical stories that we were now dumb enough to take literally." The point of Genesis 1, for example, was never to lay down a historical, scientific account for the origin of creation. That's not what Ancient Near-Eastern creation stories did, their point was to talk about what kind of god created the world. Furthermore, that world was not nearly as factual, processed-driven society, historians of that day were not concerned with getting all the facts right, whereas we are concerned with getting all of the facts right.

 

[com7fy8]

What if the stories and legends of the Bible were actually written as religious fables? But they were so well written that the people of the day believed they were true.

I understand that people reading the early scriptures personally knew the ones who wrote them, or were somehow in communication with them so they could know if they were make-believe or not . . . or "historical fiction".

In any case, yes each person does personally communicate with God . . . somehow . . . either by submitting to Him and sharing and communicating with Him in His love (Romans 5:5, Colossians 3:15) . . . or by having a run-in with the personal communication of God's resistance > James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5.

I believe that all people are good inside, and will only turn bad due to bad experiences and abuse.

Well . . . if someone is good, the person can react in a good way to something bad or abuse. Also, not all victims of abuse become predators and other sorts of abusers. I think that, often enough, a person who is hurt by one person is also being treated well by someone else; so it's the person's character which has a lot to do with how that person chooses to copy-cat the abuser or predator, or to follow the good example of someone who has been loving the person. Our own character can be our main dictator, much more than what others do, whether they do good or bad to us.

While I was evil for the sake of it, I could copy-cat the bad things people did to me; but when I decided to be good, then was when I would pay careful attention to what nicer people said for me to do. And, even if I discovered that the nice ones were just acting, still I kept on doing the good things they had said to do. So, in my own experience, I have this sample to indicate that one's own character has the most to do with what one chooses to do.

While I was evil for the sake of it, yes there were people who were good to me; but I chose not to go their way. I might just consider them to be soft, or easy so I could take advantage of them . . . because of how I was.

 

[miss-a]

C.S. Lewis was asked a similar question. His reply was that if God allowed such a thing to happen it would be because there was so much truth in the fiction that it was as good as truth and could be applied to our lives in just the same way as if it were truth. In other words, God's Word is God's Word, no matter what. He would not allow His name on the Bible for all these many years unless it contained His truth. And that's a good thing.

However, if you read Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell, and study the work of Simon Greenleaf, you find that there are annals of historical proof of many of the Bible accounts.

Greenleaf: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=9B03C1F8888053CF56189B03C1F8888053CF5618

McDowell: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=25A3C3A691B424B1B70A25A3C3A691B424B1B70A

Then, hovever, we are back to the question of if the indidual is willing to believe, open to believe. Certainly, if one is not interested in looking into the validity of the Bible, for example studying these works, their willingness to have faith or believe is in question.

 

[blackribbon]

This presupposes that the people of ancient times were stupider that we are. Aesops fables were really well written stories that are older than the Bible and yet, everyone knew they were just that fables.

However, instead archaeological digs keep finding things that give evidence to the truthfulness of the Bible.

That said, you are free to not believe. However, to my thinking, even if I wanted to believe that somehow there is not a God, I find way to much evidence in real life and science to indicate that this world can't be the result of random chance. And there is no way to "invent" the comfort that comes from the Holy Spirit.

 

[radhead]

While I was evil for the sake of it, yes there were people who were good to me; but I chose not to go their way. I might just consider them to be soft, or easy so I could take advantage of them . . . because of how I was.

Some people really are nice because they are too trusting. That's not a good thing. You should give a good first impression to people you meet, being cordial, but that doesn't mean you have to give your trust to them automatically. They will respect you more if you don't show that kind of blind trust, while also being cordial.

 

[radhead]

C.S. Lewis was asked a similar question. His reply was that if God allowed such a thing to happen it would be because there was so much truth in the fiction that it was as good as truth and could be applied to our lives in just the same way as if it were truth. In other words, God's Word is God's Word, no matter what. He would not allow His name on the Bible for all these many years unless it contained His truth. And that's a good thing.

However, if you read Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell, and study the work of Simon Greenleaf, you find that there are annals of historical proof of many of the Bible accounts.

CS Lewis never did a good job of defending his faith. He just stated what he believed. The fact that people want to believe a literal message in the Bible does not mean it is true. It just means that the people who wrote it understood human nature. Paul tried to explain that.

The fact that there is historical proof of Bible references proves one thing: It was set on planet earth.

Just because it was set on planet earth, it doesn't prove that the supernatural events took place. Any more than a Stephen King story is true because it is set on planet earth. And nowhere in a Stephen King story will you find a statement like this: "This is a work of fiction". Same as the Bible stories.

 

[radhead]

This presupposes that the people of ancient times were stupider that we are. Aesops fables were really well written stories that are older than the Bible and yet, everyone knew they were just that fables.

However, instead archaeological digs keep finding things that give evidence to the truthfulness of the Bible.

That said, you are free to not believe. However, to my thinking, even if I wanted to believe that somehow there is not a God, I find way to much evidence in real life and science to indicate that this world can't be the result of random chance. And there is no way to "invent" the comfort that comes from the Holy Spirit.

As far as the archaeological findings, do you honestly believe that? See my response above. I don't understand how that would prove the supernatural.

The existence of God and the spirit of God (which I believe in) does not prove that stories written about God are true. Why would you believe that? That's quite a leap. That's even a larger leap than the debate between atheists and theists. Larger by astronomical magnitudes.

 

[radhead]

And no one has really talked about my Money theme of the Bible. If you truly wanted to get angry, I think you would have a right to offend the kind of people who value money so much today. Especially Christians. How many churches don't have some kind of financial "Bible study"? That just doesn't make sense.

Even worse is the fact that Evangelical churches try to force money out of people by fear and bullying tactics. They are much worse than what was happening in Martin Luther's day. Evangelicals are much worse in their preaching about Tithes.

Many evangelicals will complain about the wealth of Joel Osteen. But people are paying him because they like his message. He is encouraging them to treat each other in the right way, with biblical principals. He doesn't play the Fear card the way conservatives do. He is just helping people to have a good attitude.

He is basically a motivational speaker. At least he isn't "selling" God. Or the fear of God.

 

[miss-a]

CS Lewis never did a good job of defending his faith. He just stated what he believed. The fact that people want to believe a literal message in the Bible does not mean it is true. It just means that the people who wrote it understood human nature. Paul tried to explain that.

The fact that there is historical proof of Bible references proves one thing: It was set on planet earth.

Just because it was set on planet earth, it doesn't prove that the supernatural events took place. Any more than a Stephen King story is true because it is set on planet earth. And nowhere in a Stephen King story will you find a statement like this: "This is a work of fiction". Same as the Bible stories.

I'm not sure which parts of Lewis, McDowell, or Greenleaf works you are referring to here. Can you site those so we can have a clear discussion. Thanks, friend.

 

[miss-a]

This presupposes that the people of ancient times were stupider that we are. Aesops fables were really well written stories that are older than the Bible and yet, everyone knew they were just that fables.

However, instead archaeological digs keep finding things that give evidence to the truthfulness of the Bible.

That said, you are free to not believe. However, to my thinking, even if I wanted to believe that somehow there is not a God, I find way to much evidence in real life and science to indicate that this world can't be the result of random chance. And there is no way to "invent" the comfort that comes from the Holy Spirit.

Yes, speaking of science, this book will also help you, radhead. Here's a link. It's free online: http://sciencespeaks.dstoner.net/ Hope that helps.

 

[Tom Mix]

Why are your threads so long? I read like the first line and then get bored.

 

[radhead]

I also believe that the comfort of the Holy Spirit is real. But that is something that is known by all peoples of all faiths, just in different Names. So who is to say that the names used in one particular faith are correct. God understands us and understand why we believe the things we do. He is not going to hold it against us if we have some errant beliefs that we might have bought into.

 

[radhead]

deleted post

 

[chuck77]

Edited.

 

[farout]

What if the stories and legends of the Bible were actually written as religious fables? But they were so well written that the people of the day believed they were true. They contained very real and human behavior, interacting with God the way that real people do. Even hearing what they thought was his audible voice at times. Having dreams and visions.

What if the Psalms were written by these people who did believe the stories were true? Perhaps some of the psalmists believed that the stories were true. We have no way of knowing this. But I do believe that the Psalms were very honest writings.

I believe that all people are good inside, and will only turn bad due to bad experiences and abuse.

And I believe the source of all abuse and bad experiences (at the root) originates from the desire for wealth. The desire to have more than is needed. People want to avoid work, and if they are successful and smart they can achieve this. Either by having an aggressive entrepreneurial spirit. Or by their intellect, getting a degree that enables them to have a "professional" career that doesn't really involve work. But which pays better than real workers would receive.

This wealth and privilege also leads to power and corruption. And it scares me that even today, people of privilege can get away with murder.

Anyway, I think this source of evil is what the writers of the Bible were trying to say. This was their central message. Whether in the form of stories or prophets. Sometimes the stories had an ironic message that many people did not apprehend. Some of these people living in darkness who may not even want to know the message.

That is why the religious people of Jesus's day had so much trouble with him. And I believe that most "Christians" today would reject Jesus. Because they are so much like the religious people back then.

Ok, what if the Bible is exactly what is, the very Words of GOD? What is the OT is the pre-telling of Jesus? What if Jesus is the genuine Son of God/ What If what Jesus said is 100% right? What if there is a Hell that will last for eternity for those who reject Jesus Christ, and refuse to be a Follower of His?

What if you being told this no longer gives you an excuse for not believing?

 

[98cwitr]

mod hat on

Thread has been moved from Singles forum to Apologetics. Please be mindful of where you post and the SoP stickied in each forum. Thanks!

mod hat off

 

[AV1611VET]

What if the stories and legends of the Bible were actually written as religious fables?

Then Israel wouldn't exist as a nation today.

 

[radhead]

Then Israel wouldn't exist as a nation today.

Have you never heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?