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What If Your Children Are Not Elect?

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Romanseight2005

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I am rather confused by the statement that Bradford made about people who believe that God has given them free will. How does the belief that God has given man an ability to make choices, make us omniscient? I think the differing point would be irresistable grace. I believe that God woos people, and I believe that God listens to prayers. I know this is not a debate, and I don't want to. I just am a bit confused with the idea that if we have any ability to make choices then we must be omniscient.
 
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bradfordl

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I am rather confused by the statement that Bradford made about people who believe that God has given them free will. How does the belief that God has given man an ability to make choices, make us omniscient? I think the differing point would be irresistable grace. I believe that God woos people, and I believe that God listens to prayers. I know this is not a debate, and I don't want to. I just am a bit confused with the idea that if we have any ability to make choices then we must be omniscient.
The comment about omniscience was sarcasm that had to do with past contentions with a particular brother here, and I apologize if it confused you.

God has given man the ability to make choices within the context of his nature. An unregenerate man is free to make choices as to what toppings he wants on his pizza, but he is incapable because of his nature to choose to believe God. A man born of the Spirit has a new nature, and is then capable of choosing to do so, and in fact cannot do anything but choose to believe.
 
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heymikey80

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The comment about omniscience was sarcasm that had to do with past contentions with a particular brother here, and I apologize if it confused you.

God has given man the ability to make choices within the context of his nature. An unregenerate man is free to make choices as to what toppings he wants on his pizza, but he is incapable because of his nature to choose to believe God. A man born of the Spirit has a new nature, and is then capable of choosing to do so, and in fact cannot do anything but choose to believe.
I would only add this -- in our day the idea of "believe in God" is essentially reduced to the belief that He exists. That doesn't save you. It sure doesn't save Satan (cf James 2).

Salvation isn't given just because you believe that God exists. It comes through a reliance on God doing something about the thing we're most obsessed with: our very lives. That "doing" is Jesus' Atonement, and we rely on Jesus Christ in a way that is not simply assenting to facts.
 
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kj7gs

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Since infants are born with original sin does this mean that they will go to hell if they don't grow old enough to be able to choose Christ?
When infants die before the age of accountability does that mean they were never one of the chosen ones?
This is exactly why we have our children baptized. They are "marked" under a covenant of grace the same way that children in the Old Testament were covered under the covenant of circumcision. God is of course free to accept or reject that mark, but Christians raise their children in the fear of the Lord, and in this way the Christian household is conducted differently than the unbeliever's household.
 
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ghs1994

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I have been asked on several occasions by my family what I believe about children and eternity.

To be honest, I'm not sure. I have read in Spurgeon's "A Defense of Calvinism", he states that he is thankful to know all children go speedily to heaven upon their death. I'm curious as to what scriptures brought him to that conclusion.

At the same time, if we believe all have been given to the curse in physical and spiritual terms, it looks as though God does not tolerate sin and is punishable by eternal seperation in hell.

I'm curious, as we study the scriptures, I know it's always good to know who the author is addressing. In all of our conversations concerning children and death, is there any particular scripture that addresses children in particular instead of men/women when the statement is made, "...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."?

I haven't yet come to any conclusion concerning children and I don't know that I ever will. It is in my human nature to want to have a dogmatic answer for everything concerning the Word. In this case, I lean towards God being a fair and just judge and that whatever He has decided about children, it will be right.
 
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heymikey80

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I have been asked on several occasions by my family what I believe about children and eternity.

To be honest, I'm not sure. I have read in Spurgeon's "A Defense of Calvinism", he states that he is thankful to know all children go speedily to heaven upon their death. I'm curious as to what scriptures brought him to that conclusion.

At the same time, if we believe all have been given to the curse in physical and spiritual terms, it looks as though God does not tolerate sin and is punishable by eternal seperation in hell.

I'm curious, as we study the scriptures, I know it's always good to know who the author is addressing. In all of our conversations concerning children and death, is there any particular scripture that addresses children in particular instead of men/women when the statement is made, "...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."?

I haven't yet come to any conclusion concerning children and I don't know that I ever will. It is in my human nature to want to have a dogmatic answer for everything concerning the Word. In this case, I lean towards God being a fair and just judge and that whatever He has decided about children, it will be right.
Your last is where Reformed thought begins. We know there's not much information to go on. But what there is, is more than first appears.

We normally look at salvation as an individuistic thing. But it isn't; not always. God makes certain assertions that tie directly toward children. He's not simply being metaphorical when he calls a child over and says "Your faith must be like that of a little child's." Children do learn quite a bit at an early age, and we need to realize our self-awareness reaches further back than our Enlightenment forbears realized. Ephesians 6 and Colossians also call out commands to children in the congregation. This is made all the more significant: both commands are embedded among commands to other people groups of Christians. They're definitely not general moral commands to the world at large (as if Paul could get away with that!).

That said, there's more than that, still. The strongest explicit situations are probably Paul's in 1 Cor 7 and David's in 1 Samuel.

In 1 Cor 7 Paul makes statements about the holiness of the children of a believer -- that one believer sanctifies an unbelieving spouse, and it's clear from the holiness of the child that this is so. Paul is drawing a conclusion based on the holiness of the child. So this assumption actually began his reasoning. It's uncertain exactly what that holiness is, yes. But it's a positive statement. Also, its breadth is not limited by what Scripture is saying here. In other words, it's an assumption. It's not a conclusion.

Second, in the case of David, David's response to those who brought him news of his infant son's death was simply, "He will not come to me, but I shall go to him." This too is uncertain. If David simply meant he would join his child in the burial cave, well, okay. But it certainly doesn't make any indication that the child is lost to him. While it can be taken as a comment absent any afterlife or resurrection, that tends to belie other statements by David. Again, the Biblical options reduce to either a non-statement; or a positive statement. They don't include a negative statement.

When Scripture is examined as a whole, the inclusion of children in covenants that express powerful, even saving results is pervasive. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; Moses; and David. Each actually requires descendants become part of the covenant from infancy. Paul's comments about God's calling children before they were born (Rom 9) also bears a strong argument that He's not waiting for people to grow up to choose them.

Then when y'turn to how the Gospel is presented in Acts, it's just very non-individuistic. Peter tells Jerusalem "This promise is to you and your children, and all afar off, as many as God should call." (Acts 2) It's not based on whether they're kids or adults. It's based on God's calling.

When Paul explains the Gospel to the Philippian jailer, it's not "we'll talk with everyone in your house" or "do you have any small children?" It's "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, you and your whole household." When Lydia is baptized, her whole household is involved. When the leader of the Corinthian synagogue is converted, it's his whole household that changes. And Paul baptized another entire household, Stephanus', according to 1 Corinthians.

We're talking through a number of households here, and an interesting thing about it: not one made excluded children for age.

It seems very convincing to me the conclusion God wants us to draw from this: that we're to assume that God intends our kids to be a part of His covenant, unless clear evidence to the contrary expresses itself. And if we think death will cut off God's intent, I'm not sure why.
 
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Iosias

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What do Calvinists believe about their children?

The Westminster Confession teaches that "Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how He pleaseth".

The Canons of Dordt teach "We must judge concerning the will of God from His Word, which declares that the children of believers are holy, not by nature but in virtue of the covenant of grace, in which they are included with their parents. Therefore, God-fearing parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of their children whom God calls out of this life in their infancy."
 
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ghs1994

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When Paul explains the Gospel to the Philippian jailer, it's not "we'll talk with everyone in your house" or "do you have any small children?" It's "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, you and your whole household." When Lydia is baptized, her whole household is involved. When the leader of the Corinthian synagogue is converted, it's his whole household that changes. And Paul baptized another entire household, Stephanus', according to 1 Corinthians.

We're talking through a number of households here, and an interesting thing about it: not one made excluded children for age.
My question is this: How was the jailer's household saved?

Oops, I'm stupid. I read it and they went and spoke the Word to the jailer and his household and then they were saved. Ok, nevermind. Got ahead of myself.
 
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