What If Your Children Are Not Elect?

DMagoh · Jul 23, 2007

Just curious. Do Calvinists ever worry that their children wont be one of the elect. If they arent, then no matter how many times you witness to him/her, or take him/her to church, or do Bible Studies with him/her, if he/she is not elect, there is no hope they will ever accept Jesus Christ and they will go to hell.

What do Calvinists believe about their children?

hosogi · Jul 24, 2007

DMagoh said:
Just curious. Do Calvinists ever worry that their children wont be one of the elect. If they arent, then no matter how many times you witness to him/her, or take him/her to church, or do Bible Studies with him/her, if he/she is not elect, there is no hope they will ever accept Jesus Christ and they will go to hell.

What do Calvinists believe about their children?

None can tell whether their children are the elect. It is beyond their worry. It is in His hand. Just leave the matter to the Lord. As a responsible parents or guardians, we just try to lead them to the Lord. Whether our children are the elect or not does not make any difference in our efforts to lead our children to the Lord.

orthedoxy · Jul 24, 2007

Since infants are born with original sin does this mean that they will go to hell if they don't grow old enough to be able to choose Christ?
When infants die before the age of accountability does that mean they were never one of the chosen ones?

bradfordl · Jul 24, 2007

Just curious. Do Calvinists ever worry that their children wont be one of the elect. If they arent, then no matter how many times you witness to him/her, or take him/her to church, or do Bible Studies with him/her, if he/she is not elect, there is no hope they will ever accept Jesus Christ and they will go to hell.

You have the same worry, except that you believe it hinges on your ability to convince, while we believe it hinges upon God's own choosing. You do raise your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, don't you? Why would you do that if the whole matter is going to rise or fall upon their own decision? Because you believe you can have an effect on that decision. So you have power over the ultimate power... your child's own ability to make Christ's work effective or ineffective; to aid or defeat the purposes of God. Man... ya'll is some mighty potent peoples!

What do Calvinists believe about their children?

Wide range there, cowboy. Presbyterians believe along one general line while Reformed Baptists along another. And there are differences within those groups as well. I won't go into all that with you, maybe others will. But enough here know my position to know your postulated dilemma is no difficulty for me, I believe what God has promised for my children, not what man has "what-iffed" himself into questioning and denying those promises with various errors. Its a Presby thing.... you wouldn't understand.

But then again... you are a fairly omniscient being, seeing as you save yourself and all. Maybe you wouldn't need any explanation anyway. Maybe you could just free will a full understanding of covenant theology and be done with it. If you possess a "free will" capable of determining heaven or hell for yourself, that feat would be child's play in comparison.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

DMagoh said:
Just curious. Do Calvinists ever worry that their children wont be one of the elect. If they arent, then no matter how many times you witness to him/her, or take him/her to church, or do Bible Studies with him/her, if he/she is not elect, there is no hope they will ever accept Jesus Christ and they will go to hell.

What do Calvinists believe about their children?

I have completely submitted my life to Christ. And my Children are God's for him to do as he wills. Whether it's election or not, I am crucified with Christ and no longer live but Christ lives inside of me. And yes it would tear my heart apart that they would end up in heaven, but I trust God's reasoning rather than my own.

DMagoh · Jul 24, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
I have completely submitted my life to Christ. And my Children are God's for him to do as he wills. Whether it's election or not, I am crucified with Christ and no longer live but Christ lives inside of me. And yes it would tear my heart apart that they would end up in heaven, but I trust God's reasoning rather than my own.

Thank you for a civilized response and not being condescending. I respect you for your honest answer, without the diatribe and sarcasm that someone else has displayed.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

orthedoxy said:
Since infants are born with original sin does this mean that they will go to hell if they don't grow old enough to be able to choose Christ?
When infants die before the age of accountability does that mean they were never one of the chosen ones?

That's a tough one that devides many reformed Christians. Some state that children that are taken in/before adolesence proves their election since they wouldn't have much of a conscience and wake up in hell a second after being created. Others stated that proves that they are not part of God's elect that's why they are send to hell before choosing Christ. I think that scripture isn't clear about this issue therefore I refuse to make a conclusion about it.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

DMagoh said:
Thank you for a civilized response and not being condescending. I respect you for your honest answer, without the diatribe and sarcasm that someone else has displayed.

You're welcome brother. I apologize if any of my reformed brothers or sisters offends you. We have a long history of being attacked because of our soteriological views so a few ( very few) tend to be defensive.

bradfordl · Jul 24, 2007

Thank you for a civilized response and not being condescending. I respect you for your honest answer, without the diatribe and sarcasm that someone else has displayed.

Click to expand...

We know you, dear DMagoh, newer folks here do not:

You're welcome brother. I apologize if any of my reformed brothers or sisters offends you. We have a long history of being attacked because of our soteriological views so a few ( very few) tend to be defensive.

No need to apologize for me, bro. Me and DMagoh have a history, and for him to allude to another's "diatribe and sarcasm" is a real hilarity.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

bradfordl said:
We know you, dear DMagoh, newer folks here do not:
No need to apologize for me, bro. Me and DMagoh have a history, and for him to allude to another's "diatribe and sarcasm" is a real hilarity.

I have to say I am surprised by your statement because I have seen DMagoh post in other forums and his posts have not only logical but also in Christ's love.

bradfordl · Jul 24, 2007

I have to say I am surprised by your statement because I have seen DMagoh post in other forums and his posts have not only logical but also in Christ's love.

View his posts, particularly here in SR. You may come away with a different impression.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

bradfordl said:
View his posts, particularly here in SR. You may come away with a different impression.

mind posting a link for me?

heymikey80 · Jul 24, 2007

DMagoh said:
Just curious. Do Calvinists ever worry that their children wont be one of the elect. If they arent, then no matter how many times you witness to him/her, or take him/her to church, or do Bible Studies with him/her, if he/she is not elect, there is no hope they will ever accept Jesus Christ and they will go to hell.

What do Calvinists believe about their children?

Most conservative Presbyterians believe about our children that they are elect, yet generally not regenerate. They are "presumed regenerate": that is, they are assumed to be prior to regeneration, and thus assumed to be headed for regeneration. Therefore we're commissioned by God to inform them about their state and privileged to deliver them the Gospel that saves us. Especially so for our children.

If you check, that means they are ultimately part of the church invisible, so they are accounted as part of the visible church and privileged to receive its benefits. But they are not "assumed regenerate" -- that is, if they reach maturity and reject the faith, they're removed from the roles as with anyone departing the visible church and its moral purity.

I know plenty of parents who are intensely interested in drawing their wayward kids to faith. I know of none who sit back on their assumption that their kid will be saved without their involvement.

Why?

"God ordains means as well as ends."

Parents are means -- often the only means to get through to a wayward heart.

bradfordl · Jul 24, 2007

mind posting a link for me?

Opps. Sorry. Our friend has decided his past posts are not worthy of our perusal. From his CF personal page:

This member has disabled Find All Posts.

But anyway, here's an interesting thread. And another. At least if he's gonna troll he's staying in Ask a Calvinist.
http://http://www.christianforums.com/t5079547-why-did-jesus-give-us-the-great-commission.html

ReformedChapin · Jul 25, 2007

bradfordl said:
Opps. Sorry. Our friend has decided his past posts are not worthy of our perusal. From his CF personal page:
But anyway, here's an interesting thread. And another. At least if he's gonna troll he's staying in Ask a Calvinist.
http://http://www.christianforums.com/t5079547-why-did-jesus-give-us-the-great-commission.html

To be honest with you brother he just seems to be confused about calvinistic principles. He has already indicated to me that he now wants to understand calvinism. So I suggest we welcome him to ask any questions and that you two love each other as Christ commanded. There is no point in holding grudges.

bradfordl · Jul 25, 2007

To be honest with you brother he just seems to be confused about calvinistic principles. He has already indicated to me that he now wants to understand calvinism. So I suggest we welcome him to ask any questions and that you two love each other as Christ commanded. There is no point in holding grudges.

Fine with me. If DMagoh is sincere in his desire to understand the doctrines of God's sovereignty, I welcome him here. If he's laid aside the trolling stuff, I have no problem.

Monergism · Jul 30, 2007

I do not like it when some Christians bring up the "age of accountability." I'd say that it depends on God's grace, not on ignorance.

cygnusx1 · Jul 30, 2007

mmmmm , if my children are not elect , then they will be condemned for their sin.

Should their none -election make me doubtful of my own election ? no.

Should it make me doubt the fairness of election ?

well . Seeing as they already have partaken in an election , then I hardly think griping about fairness is right.

"what election have they already partaken of ? " I hear you say ,

why , "the election of being born into a Christian family" I reply.

Which to my way of thinking is no more unjust than no election to life everlasting (reprobation).........God's Grace all the way!

orthedoxy · Jul 30, 2007

That's news to me for a Calvinist to say children have eternal life.
I thought you believe in original sin. You guys quote psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
Sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
All have sinned, non are righteous. What happened to these verses?
Maybe I just don't understand Calvinism. If babies have eternal life or if they die before a certain time we know they are one of the elect? Would you say they were assured of eternal life until they do something?

heymikey80 · Jul 30, 2007

orthedoxy said:
That's news to me for a Calvinist to say children have eternal life.

Sure. It's four hundred year old news, but I guess it's news to those who haven't looked.

Since we must make judgments about God's will from his Word, which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature but by virtue of the gracious covenant in which they together with their parents are included, godly parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of their children whom God calls out of this life in infancy. Canons of Dordt, Heading 1, Article 17

This is addressed in the Synod of Dordt. Some children indeed do have eternal life.

orthedoxy said:
I thought you believe in original sin. You guys quote psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
Sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
All have sinned, non are righteous. What happened to these verses?

Nothing. Nothing in the case of us sinners, either. Both have original sin. Both are subjects of God's mercy and thus His calling and regeneration. Both may believe.

Election "does not involve his choosing certain human qualities or actions from among all those possible as a condition of salvation, but rather involves his adopting certain particular persons from among the common mass of sinners as his own possession. As Scripture says, When the children were not yet born, and had done nothing either good or bad..., she (Rebecca) was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). Also, All who were appointed for eternal life believed (Acts 13:48)." Synod of Dort, Heading 1, Article 10

orthedoxy said:
Maybe I just don't understand Calvinism. If babies have eternal life or if they die before a certain time we know they are one of the elect? Would you say they were assured of eternal life until they do something?

No. They are concluded to be elect because of the evidence God gives, "elect for the sake of their fathers." That's the sole evidence to go on: God's promises about election. If they reveal in maturity that they are not believers, then their rebellion shows they have not been reconciled with God. That is also evidence to go on.

Assurance arrives through a rather different path. We receive assurance from the Spirit of God that we are His, yes, and we also receive assurance from our works, and from our hearts. The assurance from God the Spirit is infallible -- yet we may be deceived by others who tell us, one way or another.

What If Your Children Are Not Elect?

DMagoh

Guest

Active Member

Lusavorchagan

Veteran

Chapin = Guatemalan

DMagoh

Guest

Chapin = Guatemalan

Chapin = Guatemalan

Veteran

Chapin = Guatemalan

Veteran

Chapin = Guatemalan

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

Veteran

Chapin = Guatemalan

Veteran

Monergism

Guest

Jacob the twister.....

Lusavorchagan

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency