What if you were wrong all along?

NOTW · Mar 8, 2005

Dawah said:
so all i'm saying is give yourself a chance of knowledge of the Islam,

Why don't you do the same thing you're asking everyone to do?
Why don't you look into Christianity and then decide?
Or just coz you were born in a muslim family, then you will be muslim and not decide for your own?

tulc · Mar 8, 2005

Dawah said:
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good)."

It's fortunate then that as a Christian I am submitted to Allah (God).
tulc(welcome to CF by the way)

tulc · Mar 8, 2005

What if you were wrong all along?

It wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the...well I guess it will be the last time!
tulc(one of those "hoping for mercy" kind of guys!)

markie4u2001 · Mar 8, 2005

Avtoritet said:
S Walch said:

will be waited on by 72 "hoors".

QUOTE]
Good way of saying eternal pleasure with females

Click to expand...

I read that word was mistranslated, it supposeddlyy mmeans whitte raisins so youmight not want to commit suicide.

gaijin178 · Mar 8, 2005

I believe that all of us question what we believe in. I believe that all of us should question we believe in instead of holding it up as 100% truth with no acceptions. Questioning helps with finding your path or in other cases, solidifying your beliefs. There is something called social conditioning. It happens to every human who lives on this planet. There are many instances of trancending the negative conditioning but they aren't as comon as we think. This forum actually allows for a lot of us to be here for our own interest in discussion. However, if I am born on one block, I may have the conditioning of being a Christian, another block, that of a Muslim, and still another that of a Jew. A lot of our beliefs that we hold so true to us are from this social conditioning that we get from our families, communities and even countries. The social condition can even be equated in many instances to being born black, white, brown or blue. We become so attached to this conditioning as truth and reality and often do it out of fear. This attachement to these kind of beliefs in my opinion are actually causing warped views of what reality is.

morningstar2651 · Mar 8, 2005

Well Every Religion other than Christianity they believe good moral people will either goto heaven or come back as something nicer or just die and thats it correct ?

No.

That's incorrect.

Reflectionist · Mar 8, 2005

Okay, I have this unique view, I don't harbor on it, because it's just not right.

But if I'm wrong, compared to Buddhism, Atheism, or something, then what have I lost? A few bucks on a Bible, a few days worth in Church? Not a whole lot, because after that I would, what, cease to exist?

But flip that, and if I'm right, and those guys are wrong? What did they lose? Everything. Those people aren't exactly going to be in Heaven with us all singing Praises to God for all eternity, are they? So, when you look at it like that... if you're not a Christian, you might want to check that out. Because we have no end for our beliefs.... other religions do. From... energy diffusing out into the known world and space to simply ceasing to exist to becoming a God of another Star System.

Edit - I just saw something on suicide, so I'll put my two cents in on that too... I believe that if a Christian commits suicide for whatever reason, they are purposefully disobeying the Great Commision, which God has sent to us through Christ. So, it is really up to Him wether or not you can lose salvation via Suicide. Because outright disobeying God, and telling him that you don't want to be who He has made you isn't a very "Christian" thing to do.

gaijin178 · Mar 8, 2005

Reflectionist said:
Okay, I have this unique view, I don't harbor on it, because it's just not right.

But if I'm wrong, compared to Buddhism, Atheism, or something, then what have I lost? A few bucks on a Bible, a few days worth in Church? Not a whole lot, because after that I would, what, cease to exist?

But flip that, and if I'm right, and those guys are wrong? What did they lose? Everything. Those people aren't exactly going to be in Heaven with us all singing Praises to God for all eternity, are they? So, when you look at it like that... if you're not a Christian, you might want to check that out. Because we have no end for our beliefs.... other religions do. From... energy diffusing out into the known world and space to simply ceasing to exist to becoming a God of another Star System.

Edit - I just saw something on suicide, so I'll put my two cents in on that too... I believe that if a Christian commits suicide for whatever reason, they are purposefully disobeying the Great Commision, which God has sent to us through Christ. So, it is really up to Him wether or not you can lose salvation via Suicide. Because outright disobeying God, and telling him that you don't want to be who He has made you isn't a very "Christian" thing to do.

I have heard this viewpoint before. What do you have to lose if you are wrong in this kind of thought process? Well, there are other religions which say similar things as Christianity in regards to the afterlife. What if Islam is the true path? Then sure, you spent a few bucks on a bible...your time in church...but you spent eternity in hell because you didn't follow the true path. So in this case, you should really look into all of the religious traditions and find some truth in all.

Dawah · Mar 9, 2005

NOTW said:
Why don't you do the same thing you're asking everyone to do?
Why don't you look into Christianity and then decide?

and who told you that i didn't?

i did & i decided

Dawah · Mar 9, 2005

tulc said:
It's fortunate then that as a Christian I am submitted to Allah (God).

you are submitted to 3 Gods,don't you?

the islam is the submittion to only one God

Dawah · Mar 9, 2005

Electra said:
Wow...that is a LOT of people losing all spiritual good and (persumably) going to hell.

Wow around 5 billion of us are damned according to Quran.

you said it as if according to christianity all non christian will go to

the paradise too

Electra said:
I appreiate your efford,

thank you

Electra said:
but there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING in the Quran that you can quote that can make me even consider switching my religion to Islam.

and nothing on the earth can do..

tulc · Mar 9, 2005

you are submitted to 3 Gods,don't you?

the islam is the submittion to only one God

LOL! I can understand how you would make that mistake. But it's no problem. It's as common as Christians saying Allah is an ancient moon god. We have much to learn about each others beliefs.
tulc(who is submitted to God)

MQTA · Mar 9, 2005

Irish_Guevara said:
I'm with Rae and Morningstar on this one. Of course, I'm not sure that there isn't a God. I concede that I may be wrong. But I refuse to follow any religion that I believe isn't true, and I refuse to convert to any religion out of fear. If there is a God, then surely God is smarter than this.

Why would anyone want someone to believe what they believe because they believe it and say they believe it, so you should too? What's the point?

What would happen if everyone without a CO icon suddenly changed their lifelong beliefs from one other person's buzzsloganjargonsaying? Who really would care or do anything about it anyway? Would they feel they Scored Another One? What's the game? Is that just pure ego there?

What BENEFIT is it for someone else's beliefs to be Like Yours? What's IN IT for you? I mean, REALLY.

If everyone must stand alone, Good Luck to you, Good Luck to me, thank you very much, have a nice day.

Does someone feel better when brag in prideful joy? I don't get it.

I always try to look at the ages... I'd love to see some posts from the same people 20 years from now. Do they realize they're all only saying the same thing as everyone else that's been PRATT'd Trillions, not Thousands of times before? I keep hearing Elaine's voice in my head... Yada Yada Yada

Sometimes even Charlie's Teacher... womp wah wah wah womp womp wah

What IF.... the 2 biggest words, no matter the language.

What IF What IF What IF.

Who cares if my beliefs are right? They can't be right, they've changed as new information was accepted, and old information was tossed out the window. But they're perfect each step of the way. If you Worry you're on the right path, you're on the wrong one, no matter where you are Along it.

Have a Nice Day

MQTA · Mar 9, 2005

Reflectionist said:
Okay, I have this unique view, I don't harbor on it, because it's just not right.

But if I'm wrong, compared to Buddhism, Atheism, or something, then what have I lost? A few bucks on a Bible, a few days worth in Church? Not a whole lot, because after that I would, what, cease to exist?

But flip that, and if I'm right, and those guys are wrong? What did they lose? Everything. Those people aren't exactly going to be in Heaven with us all singing Praises to God for all eternity, are they? So, when you look at it like that... if you're not a Christian, you might want to check that out. Because we have no end for our beliefs.... other religions do. From... energy diffusing out into the known world and space to simply ceasing to exist to becoming a God of another Star System.

Ever hear of Pascal's Wager?

If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.[1]

Blaise Pascal (1623- 1663)

Was a pretty good argument 400+ years ago. It's a bit more complicated than that now, and even more so in the Internet age where we're not just talking to people in our neighborhood and school.

Welcome to the classroom of life in 2005.

Rae · Mar 9, 2005

I asked you, politely, to stop proselytizing me. You said:

right now i don't..

and kept on rudely shoving your religion at me.

Apparently you need help to stop shoving your religion at me. Thank goodness CF has an ignore list. Don't bother trying to post to me again.

vajradhara · Mar 9, 2005

Reflectionist said:
Okay, I have this unique view, I don't harbor on it, because it's just not right.

But if I'm wrong, compared to Buddhism, Atheism, or something, then what have I lost? A few bucks on a Bible, a few days worth in Church? Not a whole lot, because after that I would, what, cease to exist?

Namaste,

thank you for the post.

i'm sure that someone else has already pointed out the flaw with this view.

the Buddhist view does not say that you will cease to exist... quite far from it, actually. not only do you not cease to exist in the way that you are indicating... your actions will actually play a greater role in our view than they do in yours.

But flip that, and if I'm right, and those guys are wrong? What did they lose? Everything. .

Pascals Wager was poor when it was forumlated and its even more poor now. heck, the entire wager is invalid on its' face!

Avtoritet · Mar 9, 2005

Lets scientifically aproach the question of religion.

All of you should know the story of Macbeth and His wife. somewhere in the story Lady Macbeth Kills king Duncan and then has these terrible dreams, nightmares, and sleepwakings. All that time she is trying to wash the "Blood" of her hands. Basically she feels guilty. Which religion, other than Christianity, can rid a person off this guilt?

vajradhara · Mar 9, 2005

Avtoritet said:
Which religion, other than Christianity, can rid a person off this guilt?

let's see... off hand, i can think of these:

Buddha Dharma, Jain Dharma, Sanatana Dharma, Confucianism, Taoism, the Pollen Path and the Red Road. i'm sure that there are some that i've overlooked... no offenses intended, mind you.

why.. do you have some guilt that you'd like to be rid of?

Avtoritet · Mar 9, 2005

vajradhara said:
let's see... off hand, i can think of these:

Buddha Dharma, Jain Dharma, Sanatana Dharma, Confucianism, Taoism, the Pollen Path and the Red Road. i'm sure that there are some that i've overlooked... no offenses intended, mind you.

Can you please Elaborate and explain how do the above stated religions Rid you of guilt.(If you need explanation about christianity please say so)

why.. do you have some guilt that you'd like to be rid of?

No.

vajradhara · Mar 9, 2005

Namaste Avtoritet,

thank you for the post.

Avtoritet said:
Can you please Elaborate and explain how do the above stated religions Rid you of guilt.(If you need explanation about christianity please say so)

well... that would be a terribly complicated task, explaining the pillars of 7 religions.. how about i pick one of them and go from there?

i'll let you choose, though you should know that of the ones listed, my "strengths" as it were, are Buddhism and Taoism.. so i'd be more easily able to answer and explain their views. for the others, it would be a bit more... academic, as i don't have a lot of working experience with the traditional praxis, especially for the Pollen Path and the Red Road.

No.

good guilt is a terribly destructive and self serving emotional state to become trapped in.

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