What if you can't afford to tithe?

Minty · Oct 21, 2008

mont974x4 said:
Sis, we are all needed wherever we are. The difference is in how available we make ourselves and if we are actually paying attention to needs of those around us. You, for example, are setting a fine example with the care of your parents.

Thanks, Bro

heron · Oct 22, 2008

I can't even afford a newspaper, and to give 10% of my income would mean that we lose our house. At max it would be literally pennies that I would put in the collection, and I refuse to have my financial issues spread around church...so I stopped attending.

Most churches have a privacy policy, where only the people who count the money are allowed to see how much members give. I doubt that always holds true, because people gossip or justify telling for practical reasons. But if you put money in an envelope, then it is probably only seen by the money counters.

One time when I was in a large church, the pastor asked people to raise their hands if they wanted prayer for finances. He asked everyone to quickly pray for those around them. Then he said, anyone who has a dollar in your wallet, give it to someone who had their hands raised, after the service.

It wasn't very private, but it was thoughtful. Everyone thinks they have financial needs, so it wasn't really singling people out. But it set a precedent for caring for each other.

heron · Oct 22, 2008

So I am to make my family suffer so that I can tithe?

I may be wrong, but from what I have read in Moses' law, the tithe acted as a tax in that community. God asked that all the Laws given during the Exodus be carried on generation after generation. But the initial policies were given to support the entire community, that had no taxes or government.

When Leviticus asks for a tithe for this and an offering for that, the people are not also paying taxes. Establishing principles that ten percent of a harvest goes back into the community, that the outer edge of a field is reserved for everyone to pick from, that wealthy people bring more to a pot luck dinner -- those all establish a system of higher equity in the community.

Requiring that everyone participate, ensures this equity to set the standard for the way people live, the type of economy. It was a bit like softening capitalism with voluntary socialist idealism (sorry to frighten)...social interventionism -- similar to what some contemporary political candidates are working toward.

The tithe was self-initiated. Priests did not bang down doors to make sure people paid their tithe. And God did not establish other ways of enforcing. It was trust-based.

From my experience, tithing did not make me rich, but it followed the Malachi 3:11 promise.

"Then I will rebuke the devourer [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]for you, so that it will not destroy [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes," says the Lord of hosts.

There are so many things in life that eat away at our productivity. Sometimes if feels like as soon as we make money, a new twist comes up that robs us of it. God is able to hold these back, and pave a way for us.

In the chapter before "bring the tithes into the storehouse," God presents a list of the ways that people mistreated each other and misused their religiosity. (Malachi 2) He shows a distaste for people who are profaning the offerings and prayers, omitting reverence for God.

And like someone pointed out early in this thread, the tithe was not money. It was grain. The first tenth of the increase that came to them. So scripturally, the tithe today is not necessarily money. God gave increase to OT farmers through good harvests; He gives increase to us through various means. Time, skills, piles of zucchini that friends drop off, things from deceased relatives' houses, clothes our kids have outgrown.

We are a lot more wrapped up in tithing that the scriptures are. We have heard it preached so many times, because church structures depend on it.

I think that what God is asking for, is a generous stance -- a heart that wants to reach out to other people and support them. I do believe that tithing carries through "for all generations," but it is not the cash God is looking for. It is our lifestyle of generosity.

.allie. · Oct 23, 2008

I'm really late to this, but I wanted to reply to the original post:

This scripture just stood out in my head when I read the OP.

Mark 12
41: And he sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the multitude putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums.
42: And a poor widow came, and put in two copper coins, which make a penny.
43: And he called his disciples to him, and said to them, "Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury.
44: For they all contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, her whole living."

I don't think you should ever stop going to church for fear that your financial problems will get around church. I never watch what other people put in the donation basket and I don't think anyone will notice.

hsilgne · Oct 23, 2008

Forealzchola said:
You have to be obedient to God...God calls us to give 10 percent make that your first priority before you pay your bills...it is God that has given you those jobs...this might be a test from God to see if you can be obedient with what you have in order for Him to bless you with more...or what I do is start making and IOU list ( saw this on 700) and start keeping track of everything you owe to God so if you feel like you cant give for whatever reason then say ok God I know that I was supposed to give you 20 from my 200 but_______ so im gona give you that plus next month's tithe..but what God is wanting you to really do is give your tithe PERIOD and then believe that your needs will be met and that you will have enough...go out on faith. God bless

I'm not sure anything has given Christianity a bigger black eye than this tithing balogna.

We're not under old testemant law anymore. If you have 10% to give, great. If you cannot give 10%, that's ok too. You give from your heart.

If you are able to give 30%(and some people can) and only give 10% because "that's the rule" then, I would submit, you are not giving from your heart and are being legalistic. Just as giving 10% when really you cannot afford to, you are being legalistic.

If you want to live by the old testemant laws fine. But you had better live by them ALL. Not just some. This means no blended fabric. Observing the "true" sabbath(and all the laws that goes with that). Etc., etc. etc...

From St Pauls letters to the galatians
16 (yet) who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17 But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not!
18 But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.
19 For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;
20 yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

PastorJim · Oct 23, 2008

MintyAngel said:
This is the one issue that has stopped me going to church...tithing.

You don't go to church because you can't do something that Christianity doesn't teach in the first place?

Tithing is an OT/OC concept. There were several different kinds of tithes but, typically, when we talk about tithing, we talk about a ten percent time that, in the OT went to building and operating the temple.

We don't tithe anymore.

Now, when we give, we give what we can but the emphasis is much more on the attitude of the giver because we see giving as an act of worship.

If you really want to give but can't afford to give money, then ask if there's a time you can come in and do some cleaning.

Not to get off the subject, but shouldn't you have to know these things to be a moderator on a Christian message board?

Minty · Oct 23, 2008

PastorJim said:
You don't go to church because you can't do something that Christianity doesn't teach in the first place?

Tithing is an OT/OC concept. There were several different kinds of tithes but, typically, when we talk about tithing, we talk about a ten percent time that, in the OT went to building and operating the temple.

We don't tithe anymore.

Now, when we give, we give what we can but the emphasis is much more on the attitude of the giver because we see giving as an act of worship.

If you really want to give but can't afford to give money, then ask if there's a time you can come in and do some cleaning.

Thank you for this, Pastor Jim...it is much appreciated

Not to get off the subject, but shouldn't you have to know these things to be a moderator on a Christian message board?

No...why should I have to know the in's and out's of Christianity to be a mod here? We have mods that aren't even Christian, not to mention the fact that we have member's from hundreds of differing faiths here, too...just because I am a new follower of Christ doesn't mean that I can't tell if people are being nasty to each other, or giving my opinion on whether someone has an offensive signature or something like that.

Why would I need to have a theology background to enforce the CF rules? If I was a mod in the Theology forum, then yes, I should have a knowledge of the finer points of my faith, but as someone that it just taking the first steps into Christianity (I have been Christian for about six months, with moments of back-sliding in between) I was asking a question about something that I didn't know to people that I knew would

As with all subjects, there are some that will always have greater knowledge than others, but as a virtual ignorant on some matters about Christianity, I thought it better to ask...so I did

Minty · Oct 23, 2008

As our Lord and Saviour said:

John 15:12-14 (ESV)

This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Alive4Evermore · Oct 23, 2008

Scripture says, "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit" (Matthew 7:18), "No spring yields both salt water and fresh" (James 3:12), and "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth" (Ephesians 4:29). Jesus said that we would be recognized by the fruit we bear, and the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance (Galatians 5:22-23). The Fruit of the Spirit characterizes all who truly walk in the Holy Spirit. Those who lie, slander, hate or gossip are not of God. Jesus said, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulterers, fornicators, thefts, false witness, blasphemers. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man" (Matthew 15:19,20). If someone bears false witness against you, then they are violating the Ninth Commandment, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." The Bible says that if you break one Commandment, you are guilty of breaking them all (James 2:20).

Minty · Oct 24, 2008

Alive4Evermore said:
Scripture says, "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit" (Matthew 7:18), "No spring yields both salt water and fresh" (James 3:12), and "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth" (Ephesians 4:29). Jesus said that we would be recognized by the fruit we bear, and the Fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance (Galatians 5:22-23). The Fruit of the Spirit characterizes all who truly walk in the Holy Spirit. Those who lie, slander, hate or gossip are not of God. Jesus said, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulterers, fornicators, thefts, false witness, blasphemers. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man" (Matthew 15:19,20). If someone bears false witness against you, then they are violating the Ninth Commandment, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." The Bible says that if you break one Commandment, you are guilty of breaking them all (James 2:20).

Thank you, Alive

Radagast · Oct 24, 2008

MintyAngel said:
This is the one issue that has stopped me going to church...tithing.

Well, you really should attend church of some kind. That's the most important thing here.

Your old church seems, from what you say, to be a little legalistic. Perhaps you should find another church?

MintyAngel said:
But I have no right to make my parents go without food and heat just so that I can give that money to a church that they don't even attend.

I don't think God is asking you to do that.

Saying a prayer for you and yours.

Minty · Oct 24, 2008

Thank you, Radagast...I am currently looking at the churches in my area...it just takes a lot of nerve to just walk into a building full of strangers (well it does for me ).

The church that I mentioned is two minutes away from me and is also the church where I was christened as a baby. I know a few people that attend and so it was easier for me to go (I'm always fine if I know just one person).

Thanks for the reply and the prayers

heron · Oct 24, 2008

My question was, why, on an allegedly Christian message board, are there moderators who don't even know what Christianity teaches?

A forum should be a place where people learn from each other, even if they have somewhat different interpretations of scriptures.

Not tithing, and considering the OT irrelevant, may be what some fellowships of Christianity teach -- but it is certainly not what all of Christianity teaches. So it can't be dictated by forum rules.

Jesus taught that he did not come to abolish the law. While Jesus set us free from the curse of the law of sin and death, He did not speak against the Law, or teach believers to ignore previous writings.

He came to fulfill the Law.

Mt 5:17

Jesus also taught that simplifying our stance to the heart of the law, supported the Law and the Prophets' writings. Matthew 7:12 He was not against it -- He was against people twisting and misusing it, trampling innocent people in the process.

If you look at the heart of the law for giving to God... people recognized that priests needed to be fed, synagogues needed to be kept up. Priests were not allowed to establish themselves financially like evangelists do now.

Some interesting writings on tithes that have nothing to do with what Christianity teaches now...

De 14:27
Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Leviticus 19, 20 "Be careful that you do not forsake the Levite as long as you live in your land. That does not mean give "love gifts" to televangelists who already have ten mansions.They depended on donations to feed their families. Their service to the community covered more than maintaining the temple and teaching. They declared quarantines of communicable diseases, made decisions on justice... on and on. They worked for their food.

Deut 14:22

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

(That has similarities to Communion)

Radagast · Oct 24, 2008

MintyAngel said:
Thank you, Radagast...I am currently looking at the churches in my area...it just takes a lot of nerve to just walk into a building full of strangers (well it does for me ).

Well, I hope you find something good.

TheDag · Oct 24, 2008

MintyAngel said:
But I have no right to make my parents go without food and heat just so that I can give that money to a church that they don't even attend.

I agree with what Radagsat had to say because the bible specifically talks about that. Jesus condemned the rule which had been made rules making it ok to not fulfil the obligation they had to their parents if they gave to the temple instead. So certainly it is wrong to give the money to the church instead of spending it on things we should like bills and food etc.
The trap of course is that often we then use this to justify not giving if we can. You don't sound like the kind of person who would fall in that trap but be careful all the same.

These days giving is a bit different to days gone by. in bibilical times and even more recently (few hundred years ago) basically nobody gave money. They all gave what they had. A farmer would bring food for the minister. In todays world where the only source of food nearby would be a supermarket then giving money to pay a wage is more practical. Also depending on the church setup they may be legally obligated to pay a wage and therefore once again money is better than people buying food or paying a bill for the minister. I think the NT does make it clear that when you give it should not be grudingly. You should be happy to give what you are or not at all. if you are unable then there is no need in my understanding of the bible.

Minty · Oct 24, 2008

heron said:
A forum should be a place where people learn from each other, even if they have somewhat different interpretations of scriptures.

Not tithing, and considering the OT irrelevant, may be what some fellowships of Christianity teach -- but it is certainly not what all of Christianity teaches. So it can't be dictated by forum rules.

Jesus taught that he did not come to abolish the law. While Jesus set us free from the curse of the law of sin and death, He did not speak against the Law, or teach believers to ignore previous writings.

He came to fulfill the Law.

Mt 5:17

Jesus also taught that simplifying our stance to the heart of the law, supported the Law and the Prophets' writings. Matthew 7:12 He was not against it -- He was against people twisting and misusing it, trampling innocent people in the process.

If you look at the heart of the law for giving to God... people recognized that priests needed to be fed, synagogues needed to be kept up. Priests were not allowed to establish themselves financially like evangelists do now.

Some interesting writings on tithes that have nothing to do with what Christianity teaches now...

De 14:27
Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Leviticus 19, 20 "Be careful that you do not forsake the Levite as long as you live in your land. That does not mean give "love gifts" to televangelists who already have ten mansions.They depended on donations to feed their families. Their service to the community covered more than maintaining the temple and teaching. They declared quarantines of communicable diseases, made decisions on justice... on and on. They worked for their food.

Deut 14:22

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

(That has similarities to Communion)

Thank you

Radagast said:
Well, I hope you find something good.

So do I, but with the very sparse choices near me I'm not holding my breath

TheDag said:
I agree with what Radagsat had to say because the bible specifically talks about that. Jesus condemned the rule which had been made rules making it ok to not fulfil the obligation they had to their parents if they gave to the temple instead. So certainly it is wrong to give the money to the church instead of spending it on things we should like bills and food etc.
The trap of course is that often we then use this to justify not giving if we can. You don't sound like the kind of person who would fall in that trap but be careful all the same.

These days giving is a bit different to days gone by. in bibilical times and even more recently (few hundred years ago) basically nobody gave money. They all gave what they had. A farmer would bring food for the minister. In todays world where the only source of food nearby would be a supermarket then giving money to pay a wage is more practical. Also depending on the church setup they may be legally obligated to pay a wage and therefore once again money is better than people buying food or paying a bill for the minister. I think the NT does make it clear that when you give it should not be grudingly. You should be happy to give what you are or not at all. if you are unable then there is no need in my understanding of the bible.

I agree...and thank you for posting

Thank you.

pgp_protector · Oct 24, 2008

If you can't afford to tithe money, give of your time.
Are there jobs that you can do to help serve the church ?
Ushering, Lighting, Cleanup, ect ?

Minty · Oct 24, 2008

I have helped them out in the past...and whenever I do go, I help with the coffee after the service and little things like that (I'm a very good washer upper ).

I shall have to have a think about the things that I can do...thanks PGP

Mack7 · Oct 24, 2008

Greetings and may God bless all who read. Minty Angel, when you decide to give an offering to God, make sure that it is coming from your HEART, no matter what amount of time, money, devotion, etc. This way you will know it is always your best. Pray to God, believing, about your finances and He will give you the answers and guidance you seek. Exercise patience in the Lord. Delay does not mean denial. God is always on time.

Never forget the power that exists within the Word of God. It is written in Philippians 4:19, "But my God shall supply all your NEED according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." Amen? Keep quoting this scripture until it saturates within your mind and spirit believing. In faith, wait on God. God will lead your steps. Watch as changes begin to manifest and materialize before you as God's Spirit directs you. I am a living witness to this.

It is not exactly all about money but ALL OF MY NEEDS are being met by God. I have experienced what you have felt and God has been extremely patient with me in instructing and allowing me to come into this understanding that if God promises, He will deliver. Get to know His Word Sister. Amen and may God cause you to prosper in all of your endeavors in Jesus name.

Alive4Evermore · Oct 24, 2008

Mack7 said:
Greetings and may God bless all who read. Minty Angel, when you decide to give an offering to God, make sure that it is coming from your HEART, no matter what amount of time, money, devotion, etc. This way you will know it is always your best. Pray to God, believing, about your finances and He will give you the answers and guidance you seek. Exercise patience in the Lord. Delay does not mean denial. God is always on time.

Never forget the power that exists within the Word of God. It is written in Philippians 4:19, "But my God shall supply all your NEED according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." Amen? Keep quoting this scripture until it saturates within your mind and spirit believing. In faith, wait on God. God will lead your steps. Watch as changes begin to manifest and materialize before you as God's Spirit directs you. I am a living witness to this.

It is not exactly all about money but ALL OF MY NEEDS are being met by God. I have experienced what you have felt and God has been extremely patient with me in instructing and allowing me to come into this understanding that if God promises, He will deliver. Get to know His Word Sister. Amen and may God cause you to prosper in all of your endeavors in Jesus name.

Amen and Amen.

What if you can't afford to tithe?

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