What if you’re wrong about hell?

[Josheb]

I think Jersak would say that Jesus is misunderstood in that regard. But, I'm speaking for someone else here.

Yes, perhaps you are speaking for someone else and that is going to be a problem. Besides, I'm more interested in what you think. You presumably posted the article for a reason.


The implication Jesus is misunderstood by everyone, or by vast numbers in Christianity but Jersak correctly understands him is dubious at best. This is all the more so since his arguments conflict with scripture and contain fallacy in several places.

 

[LostMarbels]

That isn't even hell. The rich man's brothers are still alive. When does "hell" come into the eschatological picture?

Semantics. Legalism. Dogma.... concepts.

Did Jesus lie in preaching about a place of torment? Were his words inconsistent to the words of God?

 

[Josheb]

I agree.

Glad to read that. Wonder why it took so long to get agreement over such a simple thing. Ps. 133:1

Next?

 

[Saint Steven]

Truth is, we are created beings. We literally have no options except what has been presented to us. Accept, or don't accept. We have no say in what offer is presented. That is the offer that has been given to us by our creator. And you most certainly can refuse.

I'm holding out for a better deal. One where God finishes what he began.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

 

[LostMarbels]

I'm holding out for a better deal. One where God finishes what he began.

Then you are chasing a phantom. God finishes what he began thru Christ.

 

[Josheb]

It seems the church expanded from the east to the west.

Not doctrinally it didn't.

The gospel spread from Jerusalem in all directions. The institutionalization of Christianity centered in Rome and Alexandria but the core doctrines and the canon were (predominantly) established in the first 400 years, long before the divisions that led the east to break from the west.

Who has it backwards?

You do!


It's not personal, Steven. Those are simply the facts of history. I'm not in any way arguing Rome was doctrinally correct or implying the Schism was in any way wrong (I do have views on the matter but they have nothing to do with this op).


Jersak is writing contemporarily. He is writing to a pluralistic audience. You are doing the same. Unless and until Jersak proves his theology he is inherently asserting the op in those contexts. You are doing the same. There are scriptural and logical conflicts with Jersaks arguments, and I have listed some of them. Jersak or you or Bert, Ernie, Fred, or Ethel being EO is immaterial unless this op is intended to be a moratorium on the EO view of Hell.

If you mean argue "restorationism" or "universalism" then I have a question for you: what do you do with death? Is death dead in the end or not?

 

[Saint Steven]

Then you are chasing a phantom. God finishes what he began thru Christ.

Yes, Christ's work here on earth as Jesus is complete.
Through Adam all have died. But all are not yet made alive in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[LostMarbels]

Yes, Christ's work here on earth as Jesus is complete.
Through Adam all have died. But all are not yet made alive in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Did Jesus lie?

 

[Saint Steven]

Is death dead in the end or not?

Yes.

 

[Josheb]

I'm holding out for a better deal.

Why?

One where God finishes what he began.

What does that "better deal" look like?

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification./QUOTE]
Paul wrote that as a believer to believers about believers. He didn't write that about those who deny God's existence. What leads you to believe those two verses (removed from the inherent context) apply to words written to "the many" to all, including those Paul has stated are hostile to God?

 

[Saint Steven]

Did Jesus lie?

What kind of a question is that? Don't assume that your personal opinion is the truth.
No, but the Bible translators put words in his mouth that he never said.

 

[Saint Steven]

Why?

What does that "better deal" look like?

A fully restored creation.

 

[Josheb]

Yes.

Then those suffering the same end as death are also dead. They are the dead dead. Dead dead is dead. No restoration. No endless torture.


If death isn't dead then nothing is dead and if that's the case we then have reason to question everything stated in scripture, even our own salvation and the conditions reportedly necessitating it.

Those dead in Christ live. Those dead in death die. They are the dead dead. Dead dead is dead.

 

[Josheb]

A fully restored creation.

In which death and the dead dead are dead?

 

[LostMarbels]

What kind of a question is that? Don't assume that your personal opinion is the truth.
No, but the Bible translators put words in his mouth that he never said.

Jesus taught about hell. You keep saying it doesn't exist. So how do you rectify that without calling Christ a false prophet?

 

[Saint Steven]

Then those suffering the same end as death are also dead. They are the dead dead. Dead dead is dead. No restoration. No endless torture.


If death isn't dead then nothing is dead and if that's the case we then have reason to question everything stated in scripture, even our own salvation and the conditions reportedly necessitating it.

Those dead in Christ live. Those dead in death die. They are the dead dead. Dead dead is dead.

What happens to the dead when death is destroyed?

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

 

[Der Alte]

It seems to me that the good news is woefully absent in the gospel of Damnationism.
Accept the free gift of eternal life and be saved. Saved from what? The eternal BBQ pit.
Sounds like a gangster offer. One that you can't refuse.

How many, if any, sermons have you heard or heard of about "Hell?" I have been a Christian since LBJ, although I recall going to Sunday school when FDR was president. and I have only heard one, and I preached it. The Title was "Lessons from Hell University." slick willy was POTUS1.

 

[Saint Steven]

In which death and the dead dead are dead?

No. In which the dead dead are alive. No one is completely dead.

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus taught about hell.

What was he teaching about in the Bible translations with the word hell removed?

 

[LostMarbels]

What was he teaching about in the Bible translations with the word hell removed?

A place of condemnation outside of what believers will experience. Don't get stuck on words.

Was Jesus trying to peddle off some sort of mistruth? Jesus did warn, teach, and tell educational parables concerning this 'place'.