What if the Tabernacle was set up?

[visionary]

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

this verse when tied to Daniel's prophesy gives credence to the idea of a future abomination of desolation.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

In fact these two verses are the reason that cause many to not want the temple to be built again before the millinium. Here is where we get the idea that sacrifices will be done again in the last days.

Daniel 8:11
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

The sacificing practices have to be in place to be taken away.

Daniel 8:12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

I have heard the understanding of it being the Roman's work at removing the temple of Jerusalem back in 70 Ad as the fulfillment of that verse, but then 2000 years have gone by and the end of transgression has not yet occurred, nor do we have any history of this covenant spoke of...

Daniel 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

with this verse you see the jewish people as a nation seemingly blinders off, working with God again as they should.

Daniel 12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

fascinating subject of study, trying to understand this vision that Daniel was told

Daniel 12:9
And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Personally I have no active attachment to the rebuilding movement of the temple in Jerusalem because....

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Some of the events in Daniel happened during the time of Antiochus IV. See FFOZ's material about Hannukah.

 

[ContentInHim]

Some of the events in Daniel happened during the time of Antiochus IV. See FFOZ's material about Hannukah.

But that shouldn't preclude their happening again in the future, should it?

 

[visionary]

But that shouldn't preclude their happening again in the future, should it?

Amen... particial fulfillment is not the answer. Like you said there is nothing precluding end time fulfillment just before the Lord's return.

 

[jgonz]

I will be excited to see the Temple rebuilt... because that will mean things are happening quickly and Messiah will be returning soon.

As to whether or not I will "partake" in the Temple sacrifices, Who knows? Right now, I live in Texas, so it would be rather difficult to pop over to Jerusalem to do a wave offering... lol But who knows what's going to happen? I agree with whoever said, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[visionary]

I imagine there will be quite a pull to either get into the Jeerusalem sacrificial services or to stay away. All regions of the world will have their say in this matter and it will be heated. .... ultimately drawing blood up to the horses bridle... pretty violent I would say.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

I imagine there will be quite a pull to either get into the Jeerusalem sacrificial services or to stay away. All regions of the world will have their say in this matter and it will be heated. .... ultimately drawing blood up to the horses bridle... pretty violent I would say.

Depends on what korbanot (offerings) we're referring too.

Offerings in the Temple were not for eternal salvation. Their only purpose was to worship G-d, only two were for sin. The 'protocal' so to speak.

Now granted the Temple isn't here.

BUT scripture says it will come back.

What one has to do is go to the source, the people closest to Yeshua. Not necessarily 'tainted' theology passed down.

Who were the source? The Apostles and deciples. They were the closest to Yeshua more than anyone.

What did they do after the resurrection? They still worshipped in the Temple and with the same 'protocal'.

Did the miss something? If the Temple served no purpose then why did those that were close to Yeshua still worship in the Temple with the same 'protocal' that always existed?

Because Hashem said so.

I think alot of people disregard this fact. People say "We don't need the Temple anymore because of Yeshua". Then they might say "This was a transitional period". In Acts it wasn't and it's a fact that it wasn't. The main transition was the inclusion of the Gentiles all else stayed the same.

Then there are theologies that totally disregard the Temple ans it's korbanot (offerings) that the korbanot (offerings) aren't necessary because of Yeshua. The Apostles and deciples still did it!

Now again granted we don't have a Temple today. And it is a mitvot to not 'korbanot (offerings)' without a Temple so by not 'korbanot (offerings)' it's a mitvot.

The Temple will return as it is written. The Temple, the Land, Israel and Yeshua are 'tied into each other.

The Espitle to the Hebrews purpose was to let the Hebrews know that you need to get off your behind and stop whining over not having a Temple(my personal synopsis). 'We no longer have a Temple, what do we do?' Hebrews never says that there iwon't be a Temple anymore but tells us how to live without one.

Marc

 

[Steve Petersen]

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles...20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

 

[greg1290]

Could this be the abomination of desolation ?

 

[visionary]

Could this be the abomination of desolation ?

I have a different understanding about receiving the Holy Spirit... One .. the gift of understanding the truth.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Two ... the gift of discernment. ...

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Three... the knowledge of being a part of the family of God..

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Four.. the knowledge (knowing) it all comes from God.

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

When you read of those receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.. there is no mention of the gift of tongues.

Acts 2:37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

even when it talks about the actual receiving of the Holy Spirit there is no mention of the gift of tongues

Acts 11:15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

There is no mention of the gift of tongues that gives indication that it is the sign of the Holy Spirit baptism in the word of God. The few places in the Word of God that mentions the gift of tongues, it was always referenced with interpretation availability.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

1 Corinthians 12:8-10 tells us what the different manifestations of the Ruach HaKodesh are. There are more but the 'list' is a general list.

Speaking in tongues is the first sign after one is immersed in the name of Yeshua according to scripture. But just because you don't recieve the gift of tongues it doesn't mean you haven't recieved the Ruach HaKodesh. Again according to scripture it's the 'first sign'.

1 Corinthians 12:7-10

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

According to scripture the above in bold are manifestations of the Ruach but there could be others that expand from each.

There is no mention of the gift of tongues that gives indication that it is the sign of the Holy Spirit baptism in the word of God

I almost every case, according to scripture, tongues is the first indication that it's the sign of the Ruach immersion in the name of Yeshua.



Marc

 

[visionary]

1 Corinthians 12:8-10 tells us what the different manifestations of the Ruach HaKodesh are. There are more but the 'list' is a general list.

Speaking in tongues is the first sign after one is immersed in the name of Yeshua according to scripture. But just because you don't recieve the gift of tongues it doesn't mean you haven't recieved the Ruach HaKodesh. Again according to scripture it's the 'first sign'.

1 Corinthians 12:7-10

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

According to scripture the above in bold are manifestations of the Ruach but there could be others that expand from each.

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I almost every case, according to scripture, tongues is the first indication that it's the sign of the Ruach immersion in the name of Yeshua.



Marc

show me where?

Again according to scripture it's the 'first sign'.

the quote in Corinthians....But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

the quote in Corinthians....But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,

visionary you have to read it in context.

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all

The above is correct. Each one of us is given the manifestation.

I might be given the dicerning of spirits and possibly other manifestations

You might be given the working of miracles and other manifestations.

But for the profit of all.

We all might just be given faith and that's OK. Nobody said you must have be able to have the manifestation of working miracles or speaking in tongues, etc.

If you read Acts you will see every time one was immersed in the name of Yeshua they started speaking in tongues.

Marc

 

[visionary]

If you read Acts you will see every time one was immersed in the name of Yeshua they started speaking in tongues.

Marc

Not so.... Just as I quoted events in Acts where no mention of the speaking of tongues was brought up when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I know that you have been told to see things in light of speaking in tongues, but it is not there as frequently as you have come to understand. Speaking in tongues is the last gift mentioned in Corinthians and the least gift manifested or mentioned in the bible.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Hi visionary just because speaking in tongues isn't the first on the 'list' doesn't mean anything.

Acts 10:44-46
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Isaiah 28:11Speaking in tongues was prophesized
For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people

Acts 19:1-6
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied

Again each time one was immersed in Acts they spoke in tongues. Probably not each time but most of the time.

Speaking in tongues according to scripture is the first sign that the Ruach has fell upon them. But it's not the only spiritual manifestation when immersed.

Marc

 

[greg1290]

it is first of the list in 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

[jgonz]

If you read Acts you will see every time one was immersed in the name of Yeshua they started speaking in tongues.

Hhmmm... That's not how my Bibles read...

 

[visionary]

we probably need to start another thread just for this subjec and let this thread get back to OP.