What if the Protestant reformation never happened?

[yogosans14]

What would society be like today?

 

[Athanasias]

better

 

[yogosans14]

better

in what sense?I know the dark ages was a great time for Christians

 

[food4thought]

Well, at least it would open up the possibility that there might not be a sinful, fallible man claiming that he and his predecessors are/were infallible in certain pronouncements...

 

[Athanasias]

in what sense?I know the dark ages was a great time for Christians

"The Dark Ages" LOL were not so dark and were a great time for the Church in many ways as many modern historians have pointed out its not all that dark. Great historian who specializes in this area of history is Thomas Woods P.H.D. His book "How the Catholic Church built western civ" goes through all of those misconceptions in chapters and show in the dark ages there was Growth in science, scholastic philosophy, and the university and beautiful works of art, churches, and music.How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization: Thomas E. Woods, Antonio Canizares: 9781596983281: Amazon.com: Books

It would be much better if Christianity was not divided as it is one reason that atheist use not to be Christian. United Christianity would act as a much stronger motive for credibility for the faith for anyone.

 

[mark kennedy]

What would society be like today?

Then the Scientific Revolution and democracy as we know it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Jipsah]

"The Dark Ages" LOL were not so dark

C'mon, Ath, don't start asking folks to read history, for crying out loud! And anyway, it says "Dark Ages" right there on the label, so they must have been bad.

 

[Jipsah]

Then the Scientific Revolution and democracy as we know it wouldn't have happened.

And Nutella would never have been invented.

 

[Athanasias]

C'mon, Ath, don't start asking folks to read history, for crying out loud! And anyway, it says "Dark Ages" right there on the label, so they must have been bad.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If not Luther, someone would have said/done something. The time was ripe for a significant upheaval in the social and religious landscape of Europe.

As it stands, not everything that happened during the Reformation was necessarily of the Reformation. The Reformation itself was more-or-less the catalyst that set off a powder keg in Europe that was already ready to blow anyway.

It's simply, in my mind, unlikely that the 16th century wouldn't have seen something happen.

I might even posit that without the rather sober minds of Luther, Melancthon, Calvin (etc) who were willing to engage diplomatically with the powers that be (both ecclesial and secular) the ordeal could have been a far, far more violent one (and it was already pretty violent with the Radicals spurring on the Peasant's Revolt and fanning the flames of fanaticism and rebellion)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

in what sense?I know the dark ages was a great time for Christians

I won't quibble with the use of the term "dark ages", even though that's a historically meaningless term (the period wasn't dark, we're actually pretty aware of the history that went on between the fall of Rome in the 5th century through the rise of Charlemagne and the re-opening of Europe to classical philosophy in the 12th and 13th centuries.

Instead I'll simply point out that, yes actually, that period was a pretty good time to be a Christian.

It wasn't a particularly good time to be a Jew, a Pagan, or a heretic though.

So I'd much rather be alive now than a thousand years ago, I'm quite fond of my Jewish, Pagan, and heretic friends and would much rather prefer not to see them burned at the stake or fall victim to a roving band of fanatics as so often happened.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[football5680]

The World would be much better and we would be fulfilling what Jesus wanted for us.

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. (John 17:20)

There are thousands of Protestant denominations which all claim to follow true "Biblical" Christianity and this gives non-believers an excuse. If Christianity was united then we could focus on preaching the gospel to non-believers but instead of that we argue amongst ourselves.

The Protestant "Reformation" was simply a rebellion. It did not bring order, it brought chaos. The major reformers didn't even agree with each other. Before the reformation there was the Catholic and Orthodox church so at this point there could be hope that in the future Christianity may have be able to reunite but there is not enough time to try and reconcile thousands of different sects. Heresies that were stomped out a thousand years age start reemerging and many people have been sent to hell for adhering to these false beliefs.

 

[Rhamiel]

I can not really guess how things would be differant now

that is like asking what if Columbus never found the Americas?
you know? it is such a huge thing that effected so much of the last 500 years...

some have argued that Reformation caused the Catholic Church to be even more reationary, that loosing most or northern Europe kind of brought on a "bunker mentality" that we can see in Council of Trent

the Reformation also brought on many reforms in the Catholic Church, and the creation of the Jesuit order and many other of the counter Reformation religious orders focused on education...

one negative thing I do have to say about the Reformation, people point out stuff like Democracy and Scientific Revolution
but we also have modern Secularism in a big part because of Protestantism

 

[Erose]

I agree with Rhamiel. The Protestant revolt occurred, because it was going to occur. Europe was in a very bad place during that them, and everyone and their momma wanted something different. At that time Church and State were not separated in the eyes of the common man at least, and as such if you blame the state for your ills, you are also going to blame the Church as well.

God has a way with making something better out something bad that happened. And He did so out of the Protestant Revolt. On the Catholic side, if the Revolt didn't happen, we wouldn't have had Trent, nor would we had the explosion of missionary activity led by the Jesuits that brought Christ to the people all over the globe.

Were there blood shed during the revolt? Yes. But it was blood that was going to be shed anyway, whether it was under the façade of a religious revolt or not.

But I believe that we gained far more good in the end from the evil of that revolt.

 

[Tangible]

Aren't alternate histories fun?

What if the Vikings or the Romans or the Chinese had successfully colonized North America? What if Native Americans had domesticated large animals and learned to smelt iron? What if Asians or Africans had expanded their exercise of power instead of the Europeans? What if Hannibal had conquered Rome? What if Native Americans were really the lost tribes of Israel?

All fun to think about. No practical application, though.

 

[Tangible]

I agree with Rhamiel. The Protestant revolt occurred, because it was going to occur. Europe was in a very bad place during that them, and everyone and their momma wanted something different. At that time Church and State were not separated in the eyes of the common man at least, and as such if you blame the state for your ills, you are also going to blame the Church as well.

God has a way with making something better out something bad that happened. And He did so out of the Protestant Revolt. On the Catholic side, if the Revolt didn't happen, we wouldn't have had Trent, nor would we had the explosion of missionary activity led by the Jesuits that brought Christ to the people all over the globe.

Were there blood shed during the revolt? Yes. But it was blood that was going to be shed anyway, whether it was under the façade of a religious revolt or not.

But I believe that we gained far more good in the end from the evil of that revolt.

It's not like Luther or Calvin were the first to attempt to reform the Church. Wycliffe, Huss, Savonarola, and others had come before and certainly more would have come after. Given the state of the medieval Western Church, reform was not only necessary but inevitable.

Another question worth asking might be what if Rome had accepted reform and guided it rather than fighting it and attempting to stamp it out?

 

[Rhamiel]

I agree with Rhamiel. The Protestant revolt occurred, because it was going to occur. Europe was in a very bad place during that them, and everyone and their momma wanted something different. At that time Church and State were not separated in the eyes of the common man at least, and as such if you blame the state for your ills, you are also going to blame the Church as well.

God has a way with making something better out something bad that happened. And He did so out of the Protestant Revolt. On the Catholic side, if the Revolt didn't happen, we wouldn't have had Trent, nor would we had the explosion of missionary activity led by the Jesuits that brought Christ to the people all over the globe.

Were there blood shed during the revolt? Yes. But it was blood that was going to be shed anyway, whether it was under the façade of a religious revolt or not.

But I believe that we gained far more good in the end from the evil of that revolt.

I did not say that the Protestant Reformation was inevitable
I just said that over the last 500 years, so much has changed because of it, we can not assume what it would be like if it never happened

 

[hagios24]

1. I hate to say it, but the Protestant Reformation was a deliberate rebellion by the Catholic Monarchy to create Demoacry. One guy hinted on it here, I'm just filling the gaps.

2. The Catholic Monarchs were getting bored of the Sacraments and Liturgy. They wanted Humanism. To glorify themselves. No more of this God stuff.

3. Catholic scholars spent hundreds of years researching various fields to help build a very powerful form of Government Democracy based on Constitution based on the Bible, partially.

4. The ancient romans and greeks loved their ideas of liberty which were naturally very condusive to a Christian foreground.

5. The Romans did not like the Germanic Tribe style of government or the ancient muslim for that matter but were able to create peace by imploying the democratic separation of powers philosphy and unity of diversity.

6. Calling a democratic nation constitutionarily run or a constitutional government democratically run is a logical inconclusion. It does not make sense. Those are both two different forms of government, entirely.

7. For America it is the Dems and Repubs, Russia the Commies, middle east dictators, europe is fashism, china socialism... Different names, but not that different in application. Either the system shares its power among parties or not and emphasises the roman ideologies or the chinese/ruissian/dictator form. Not so hard to understand.

8. The greatest book ever written on the dark ages would have to be foxes book of martyrs in my opinion. The two babylons. I say this purely from a scholary point of view.

9. The better 90s sources would have to be the prophecy club.

10. I am unaware of any new modern authors or speakers as i believe since america has basically been turned over to a shadow Government the world now awaits the show down.

11. People who run on emotion like to over emphasise a point on the spectrum to strain a nat and eat a camel as the good saying goes.

12. I believe, as someone else stated the reformation was inevitable. Inquisition was unpopular, too messy, unintelligent you could say and just - old. Everyone is dead. No one left to kill the good saying says those who live by the sword will perish by it. Thats what happened the inquisitors and all those cronies started turning on one another - certain royalties and nobiities started getting involved it was just too messy. Revelations says that they will answer to God themselves so no worries there diggin up old mens dead bones.

13. Democracy presented an oppertunity for global government fusion. Whether thats going to end with them shooting up some more sheep unlike ever before or ever will be, the skies being rolled up like a scroll, God establishing new jerusalem, sealing the tribes and saints, judging the nations and casting satan, the anti christ and false prophet and their children into the lake of fire forever or... (fill in here) not for me to decide but for others to decide. I will say this. God is not mocked. And the devil is not the only one laughing..
. He who laughs last...

15. My opinion is purely this to answer the op. The reformation was God calling the catholic church to repentence. Imho had there been no reformation the chinese germanic tribes or muslim antients would have completely whiped out the catholic church from off the earth along with temselves and i say this conservatively and carefully the reformation embodied those principals off the gentiles that the first century church loved. Thank God for preserving some of our ancestors and even sparring those who were guilty for our sakes

 

[mark kennedy]

C'mon, Ath, don't start asking folks to read history, for crying out loud! And anyway, it says "Dark Ages" right there on the label, so they must have been bad.

Didn't the Renaissance, the 'rebirth' of classical Grecian art and science, happen during the so called 'Dark Ages'?

 

[mark kennedy]

The World would be much better and we would be fulfilling what Jesus wanted for us.

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. (John 17:20)

That sounds like a pretty good proof text for Solo Christo.

There are thousands of Protestant denominations which all claim to follow true "Biblical" Christianity and this gives non-believers an excuse. If Christianity was united then we could focus on preaching the gospel to non-believers but instead of that we argue amongst ourselves.

Which is something Christianity did until the western church decided it was the church to the exclusion of anyone who did not submit to Rome. During the Pax Romana Christianity flourished, once Rome was installed as the religion of the Roman Empire it simply excluded all other Christian groups. Got to give them some credit though, it lasted a thousand years.

The Protestant "Reformation" was simply a rebellion. It did not bring order, it brought chaos. The major reformers didn't even agree with each other. Before the reformation there was the Catholic and Orthodox church so at this point there could be hope that in the future Christianity may have be able to reunite but there is not enough time to try and reconcile thousands of different sects. Heresies that were stomped out a thousand years age start reemerging and many people have been sent to hell for adhering to these false beliefs.

Kind of like a Phoenix up from the ashes? What is the smallest nation on earth and what is the most common form of governance? The answer is in the Republic that was the Roman Empire and it's 'rebellious' offspring, Democratic Protestant political philosophy.