What If Israel Had Never Been Created?

[jgarden]

US enemies among the Arab peoples far pre-dates 1948 or any US intervention on behalf of the Jewish people .... Hitler and many powerful Arabic leadership were in league together, had shared values and were allies against the Allied countries in WWII

Stern (Jewish terrorist/freedom fighter leader)rejected collaboration with the British, and claimed that
only a continuing struggle against the British Empire would lead eventually to an independent Jewish State

..........His movement drew an eclectic crew of individuals, from both ends of the political spectrum, including prominent right-wing activists such as Yitzhak Shamir (later to become the prime minister of Israel).

- January 1941, Stern attempted to make an agreement with the German Nazi authorities, offering to "actively take
part in the war on Germany's side" in return for helping Jewish refugees to come to Israel into a Jewish State. Another attempt to contact the Germans was made in late 1941, but there is no record of a German response in either case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Stern

There were also Jews, including Yizchak Shamir, willing to join forces with the Third Reich and fight against the British in return for a Jewish state.

 

[Sleeker]

Thanks mostly to U.S. President Harry S. Truman and his “susceptibility to Zionist influence,” Israel came into existence in 1948. [[1] Humanity, and in particular, the Palestinians, have paid dearly for his decision. The land on which the Palestinians had been living for centuries, in peace, with a minority Jewish population,

Wrong. There had been violence since at least the beginning of the 1900's. Plus, it was Israel that was attacked in 1948; it was not the attacker.

has been gradually transformed into an Apartheid state by the machinations of the Zionist Movement. That Apartheid state, in turn, is today dominated by Israel’s Death-Mayhem-and- Occupation Machine. [2]

Buzz words.

1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World.
2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network.
3. Gasoline would be selling for less than $1 a gallon.
4. There would have been no 9/11.
5. There would be no USA Patriot Law.
6. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.
7. The Israeli Lobby’s “unmatched power” over the U.S.’ foreign policy, for over four decades, would not had existed. (Its support for the Iraqi War was deemed by the experts to be “critical.”) [3]

8. There would also not have been any Neocon ideologues; like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, Richard Perle, et al, to help, (along with other “Special Interests”), to push the U.S. into an illegal war with Iraq. [4]

9. Iran would not be the next target for U.S. aggression. (No Israel. No “A Clean Break” document. No Israeli Lobby. No Neocons. No need for the U.S. to attack Iran.) [5]

10. The Zionist fink, Jonathan Pollard, wouldn’t be in prison for stealing U.S. military secrets and hawking them to Israel.

12. Jerusalem would have a vibrant Christian population. [7]

13. Rachel Corrie of Olympia, WA, would be alive and well. [8]

14. The 2,544 Americans who have died in Iraq would be alive; and the 18,777, who have been seriously wounded there, would be fully participating in our Republic. U.S. taxpayers would have an additional $295 billion, (the cost of the war), in the treasury to use to serve the social needs of the people. Universal Health Care would be a real possibility and Social Security would not be in jeopardy. Iraq would be at peace. There would be no Gitmo Bay detention center, or an Abu Ghraib Prison, or a reason for the Bush-Cheney Gang to gut Habeas Corpus. No need for it to also employ torturers, or chemical weapons, or hold detainees without charges or trial. The Geneva Convention would be respected. The tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who have died as a result of the war, would instead be alive today. (At the following footnote, see horrific photos of some of the Iraqi dead.) [9]
15. The battle to save our planet, its fragile ecosystem, its fast vanishing animal life and plants and to combat global warming, would be issue “No. 1.” [10] Instead, we are perpetually bombarded with propaganda about defending “Israel’s security.”

16. If there was no Israel, then the “five dancing Israelis” on 9/11 wouldn’t have been arrested. They were nailed after “celebrating” in NJ, while watching the Twin Towers collapsed. [11]

17. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the ultra-greedy interests of the Zionist Cartel. [3]

18. The 34 Americans onboard the USS Liberty, who were slaughtered by the IOF, on June 8, 1967, would be alive today; and the 174 others who had suffered injuries that day would not have had to endure their horrific experiences. The shame the U.S. carries for not having quickly defended the men of the Liberty, and retaliated against the Israelis for their deliberate attack on the vessel, would have been avoided. [12]

19. On June 13, 2006, the IOF killed ten Palestinians, including three medical workers and two children, in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, labeled the missile attack an example of “state terrorism.” Only God knows how many Palestinians the Israelis have actually wasted since 1948; or exactly how many refugees it has created, or how many homes, a la Oliver Cromwell, the IOF have demolished. None of this would have been possible without the dubious “state of Israel.” [13]

20. Paul Bremer, a coat holder for Henry “Iago” Kissinger, would have never been appointed Viceroy for an Occupied Iraq. No Israel. No Iraqi War. No Zionist Bremer as Viceroy of Iraq. [14]

21. One of the reasons the Warren Commission failed to properly investigate the murder of JFK was because of Arlen Specter (R-PA), a card carrying Zionist. He was then a “Special Counsel” to the Commission. He concocted the preposterous “Magic Bullet” theory, which shut down any real conspiracy-type probe. It is also interesting to note, that Jacob Rubenstein, aka, “Jack Ruby,” Lee Harvey Oswald’s murderer, had close ties to Meyer Lansky’s National Crime Syndicate. I believe the answer to who really plotted JFK’s killing, died with Oswald. In any event after JFK’s death, Israel’s nuclear weapons program, which he had opposed went ahead. U.S. aid to Israel also increased dramatically. [15]

22. There would have been no reason for a French Ambassador to refer to Israel as “that ****ty little country.” [16] In fact, the Jews of the world would have been liberated to fulfill their deepest spiritual quest, as embodied in their religion - Judaism. According to the highly respected Orthodox Rabbi, Dovid Yisroel Weiss, “Zionism has hijacked Judaism.” The courageous Rabbi insists that, “Zionism creates anti-Semitism...And we know...Zionism is the root cause for the pain, suffering and bloodshed of the Jewish people...and, they, (the Zionists), are the greatest factory of anti-Semitism worldwide...Judaism and Zionism is not one and the same. They are diametrically opposite...We should not be mistaken one for the other. And, we shouldn’t be responsible for the actions of what the Zionists do...Now, another of the problems that emanate actually from the Zionist Movement is the fact that they are encroaching upon the rights of the Palestinian people, the indigenous people, who are living there. And, this is terribly wrong. It is against every concept of the Torah...So, whatever they are doing is totally wrong!” [17]

23. Thousands of Israelis have died attempting to build a nation in a land, Palestine, which belonged to another people, the Palestinians. Their deaths would have been avoided. [18]

24. The widespread spying on Americans, without a court order, by operatives of the Bush-Cheney Gang, would have never happened. (No Israel. No 9/11. No spying on U.S. citizens.)

25. On April 4, 2003, a European Union (EU) poll named Israel as the “greatest threat to world peace.” [19] On June 27, 2006, the IOF proved the EU right by reoccupying Gaza, savagely terrorizing the civilian population, blowing up their electric/water generating facilities, conducting a mass arrest of their elected officials, and also, without just cause, provoking the Syrians. In response to the repeated shelling by the IOF of Gaza, Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, wisecracked, “Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!” When he addressed a Joint Session of the U.S. Congress, on May 24, 2006, Olmert received 38 breaks of applause and 18 standing ovations from that entity of mostly lapdogs. This is also the same Israeli leader, who, paraphrasing George Orwell's “Animal Farm,” said that he had a “deep regret” about the effects of some IOF’s operations which had killed 14 innocent Palestinians in just nine days, but that the lives of Israeli citizens were “even more important.”(20) Finally, if there wasn’t a Zionist-created Israel, there also wouldn’t be any need for a commentary like this one!

Guesswork.

11. The three million-plus Palestinians, who were forcefully dispersed from their homeland, since 1948, by the Israeli Occupation Forces, (IOF), would, instead, be living happily there today, in a free and independent state of Palestine. There would be no Apartheid Wall, or as a corollary, a Hamas organization. [6]

The land Palestine is on now could've been free and indepedent if they didn't attack Israel immediately after its creation.

There were also Jews, including Yizchak Shamir, willing to join forces with the Third Reich and fight against the British in return for a Jewish state.[/b]

Most temporarily joined forces with Britain.

 

[k]

Saddam was on cia payroll in 1959. We put him in charge of iraq. How sik is that?

 

[BiblePartyVolunteer]

I thought God created the Nation by covenant with Abraham and blessing his children through Issac and Jacob (Israel).

 

[Patzak]

While I'm open to idea that the creation of a Jewish state in the middle of the Muslim world perhaps wasn't a very good idea, lists such as the one presented are thoroughly pointless. While mostly true, they can always only present things that wouldn't have happened, giving the impression of a perfect world if it weren't for that one little mistake. But they don't take into account that there are many possible scenarios that perhaps could have happened precisely because of the one difference. True, if the history of the world was changed so radically and more than 50 years ago, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. That doesn't mean that the world would be a better place than it is. Perhaps the creation of Israel prevented a catastrophic sequence of events that would have eventually lead to a nuclear war. We'll never know.

 

[oldbetang]

Saddam was on cia payroll in 1959. We put him in charge of iraq. How sik is that?

I've yet to see a reputable source make either of those claims.

 

[k]

Not sure what that is supposed to mean? Especialky given how...selective sources can be chosen depending the topic.

 

[Henaynei]

By your so called logic italy and japan are currently sending terrorists to attack america because they allied with the nazis in world war 2.

I commend your artistry in such skilled twisting of my words

My comment was in response to the #1 contention of the OP which stated that if the present state of Israel had not been created in 1948....

The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World

and I was pointing out that the US had enemies in the Islamic world long before the US had made even the smallest move of support of the Jewish people - thus saying suggesting that the reason the US has enemies in the Islamic world stems from our support of Israel and the Jewish people is fallacious.

 

[MachZer0]

I've yet to see a reputable source make either of those claims.

But there's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand. Not only that, Rusmfeld was smiling. What more do you need?

 

[k]

That does speak to the close relationship between us & saddam.

 

[Glaz]

17. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the ultra-greedy interests of the Zionist Cartel. [3]

Well, lets not kid ourselves here, the taxpayer wouldn't get richer, because the politicians in Washington would have found some Stealth Bombers or Seawolf subs to blow that money on instead. Remember, in Washington politicans view taxes as THEIR money, not the peoples.

 

[perplexed]

I commend your artistry in such skilled twisting of my words

.

I swear upon my honour I am not "twisting" your words. You said something that means japan and italy are currently attacking the U.S. so you are wrong. You probably mean something else but I still don't know what that is.

 

[oldbetang]

But there's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand. Not only that, Rusmfeld was smiling. What more do you need?

I almost posted another famous photo of two people shaking hands. Then I thought better of it. No need to bring Rosalyn Carter into this.

 

[Treppers]

But there's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand. Not only that, Rusmfeld was smiling. What more do you need?

Yes, a good point, Mach. Guys quit dodging our crimes will ya?

 

[Henaynei]

I swear upon my honour I am not "twisting" your words. You said something that means Japan and Italy are currently attacking the U.S. so you are wrong. You probably mean something else but I still don't know what that is.

no I did not - please re-read my last post again - I clarified what I was addressing. Perhaps re-reading the OP's #1 assertion (the first on the list that she presented of things that would be different if Israel had not been inaugurated in 1948), the one to which I was responding, will help clarify the context of my comment

b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[perplexed]

no I did not

Henaynei

Yes you did.
If it is reasonable to say that arabs would be currently attacking the U.S. because they were allied to the nazis then it has to be reasonable to say that japan and italy would be currenlty attacking the U.S. because they were allied to the nazis. This is not true so the only conlcusion you make is not talk about world war 2 at all. I mean you could say the U.S. loved communists since the U.S. was allied with Stalin against the nazis in world war 2.

 

[Billnew]

Yep, we see how peaceful the middle east is to each other. When dealing with each other.

Israel is a nice scape goat for ME troubles. And they might stir some up. But the utopia discribed in the OP
would not happen. If they weren't massing weapons to use against Israel, they would be massing to use on some other country.

And the US would have mettled with goverments anyway. Which lead to the problem leaders we faced in recent history.
It's like saying if WWI hadn't happened, WWII would have been prevented. People manipulated events that lead to what happened. And more then likely they would have manipulated other events to a comon outcome.

 

[MachZer0]

Yes, a good point, Mach. Guys quit dodging our crimes will ya?

For some, that photo is all the evidence necessary

 

[Verv]

Saddam was on cia payroll in 1959. We put him in charge of iraq. How sik is that?

Source? That is a pretty huge claim.

But there's a picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand. Not only that, Rusmfeld was smiling. What more do you need?

There are pictures of Richard Nixon smiling and shaking Mao Tse-tung's hand and Pres. Kim Daejung smiling and shaking Kim Jong-il's hands...

It is sort of a 'political meetings happen and people try to be pleasant' style.

It proves nothing.

 

[MachZer0]

Source? That is a pretty huge claim.



There are pictures of Richard Nixon smiling and shaking Mao Tse-tung's hand and Pres. Kim Daejung smiling and shaking Kim Jong-il's hands...

It is sort of a 'political meetings happen and people try to be pleasant' style.

It proves nothing.

Correction. If it was a democrat in the photo, it would prove an attempt at diplomacy. However, it it's a Republican, it's proof of a war crime.